Open Letter to AI/A&S

Dear AI/A&S,

I have been a member now for about 10 years (give or take) and I would like to air a few concerns I have.

I have read a lot recently about the interesting (and totally confusing) relationship between Astronomy Ireland and Astronomy & Space Ltd.. What really confuses me is that Both Astronomy Ireland and Astronomy and Space are limmited companies yet AI refer to them selves as a club and rely on "donations" to survive. What is even more confusing is that it no longer exists as it was disolved in 2000 according to the CRO. How can I be a "member" of a disolved company?

AI is supposedly a club yet it is a company, how does that work? On the one hand we are being asked for donations to "help your club" yet on the other hand AI is a company. You cannot have your cake and eat it too! Either AI is a non-profit organization or it is a company, it cannot be both and certainly not considering it was disolved 3 years ago! I have checked with the CRO and genuine non-profit organisations like Trócaire do NOT show up as companies yet both AI and A&S do.

What I want to know is, am I a subscriber to a Magazine published by the Comapany Astronomy & Space Ltd. or am I a member of a Club called Astronomy Ireland? When I pay my subscription fee PLUS DONATION where exactly does that money go? The form claims it goes to AI but I presume it actually goes to A&S Ltd? Where does my donation go? Does it also go to a limited company?

I must say that I am very confused by all of this. I am used to working within the University System where every club gets audited twice a year and all club accounts are available to ALL MEMBERS as well as the general public. I get very worried when I cannot see how my hard earned money is being spent by a "club" I have joined. I also find it very dishonest that the membership form does not clearly state where the money goes. If it goes to A&S Ltd like I expect it does it is false advertising not to state that on the form IMHO.

Lastly, as a fee paying member of Astronomy Ireland (or whereever my money goes) I would like to register my complaint at the decision to deny South Dublin Astronomical Society (SDAS) a stand at the Astro Expo. According to literature from this club/company the aim of the event is to act as a hub for astronomy in Ireland ("This is the one event in the Irish astronomy calendar where everyone interested in astronomy+space comes together to meet up."). This is a very good an noble aim but the exclusion of an amateur club that is free to join and offers great services to Dublin Astronomers flies in the face of that statement. This kind of behaviour is expected of a profitering company but NOT of a club that puts the interests of its members first.

Regards,

Bart Busschots,
AI Member Number Mxxxx.

FYI

I have recieved a response from AI which basically says that they are a wee bit busy now with the expo but that they do want to address the concerns I raised as soon as they have the time to. This is fair enough, running the Expo involves a lot of work.

The other interesting part of the reply is the following:

SDAS and every other astronomy clubs is VERY welcome to attend, as is
EVERY other person. No exceptions.

Anyone from SDAS wish to comment on that?

Bart B.

I have recieved a response from AI which basically says that they are a wee bit busy now with the expo but that they do want to address the concerns I raised as soon as they have the time to. This is fair enough, running the Expo involves a lot of work.

Thats a fairly standard response, several times I have mailed them they have replied saying they are too busy to reply. You will need to keep pestering them for any further response.

SDAS and every other astronomy clubs is VERY welcome to attend, as is
EVERY other person. No exceptions.

Anyone from SDAS wish to comment on that?

'Welcome to attend' and ' welcome to set up an exhibit' are very different things, I've noticed you have to read Mr. Moores emails very carefully, technically he is telling the truth, however it does not actually answer your complaint, and to me seems to be worded in such a way as to put the blame for not turning up on the SDAS. Or perhaps they are genuinely backpeddling due to the amount of emails they have gotten about it.

Cheers,
~Al

I'd hate the whole thing degenerating into a slanging match between SDAS and A.I. -- thanks for all your support though.

my final say on this is that they notified me that the presence of any other astronomy club would inappropriate and competition for membership. I think my plea that we are a small, non-fee club fell on deaf ears.

you have to admit, they have every right to say who can and can't be present at the event though and we can't argue with that. You can't argue with the competition bit either. After all, clubs put out membership flyers at events such as the Whirpool or Cosmos. The general public has a free choice.

A.I. are successful and have introduced so many in Ireland to the hobby. Why cannot we work with them? Is it because of one person?

maybe the root reason is the way their aims are so nebulous ... not highlighting that there are other choices out there. The seemingly endless need to suggest you have to pay to see the sky (e.g. letters to Marswatch organisers almost demanding they hustle people to pay to look through scopes).

Star-B-Qs, etc. are a beautiful and relaxing way to get the neophyte astronomer turned on to the sky. But to ignore the rest of the astronomical community is damning the integrity of the aims of A.I.

to indicate too in the reply mail that they would like to cooperate with SDAS in other ways to further interest in astronomy in Ireland was a bit astonishing. I may not be acting in a way representative of the membership of SDAS, but I turned down that offer stating that it was contradictory to the earlier refusal of being part of Astro Expo.

I have not received a response either to my later mail pointing out that one of the forums clearly had a comment that all clubs and societies were invited to exhibit at the event.

John Flannery,
Chairperson,
South Dublin Astronomical Society

And so the circular arguments go round and round. We're all pissed off with Astronomy Ireland, and yet they seem to be thriving...

Let's try to be a bit more positive about the state of astronomy IN Ireland. Compare things now to the way they were this time last year. This time last year I was a member of AI and only knew about the events organised and run by themselves. This year I'm a proud and happy member of both TAS and IAS, while no longer a member of AI (although I'm sure I'm still on their books), I subscribe to three astronomy discussion boards, and I've attended two wonderful astronomy events, ie Cosmos and Whirlpool. That's just me, but I'm sure there are plenty of others out there with the same or similar experiences. Things are actually quite good, and seem to be getting better.

The fact that I can be a member of two organisations simultaneously says a lot about the spirit of the clubs and societies that make up the IFAS. Co-operation and support are two of the cornerstones for these member groups. So what if AI won't promote other groups? Let them on, it's not that big a deal, we'll get there in the end.

The fact that DM can get his mug on TV fairly regularly does bring benefit to the entire hobby as John points out. Can we honestly say that part of our reasons for being disgruntled isn't jealousy? He's successful in that regard. Again, let him on.

Like many others I'm unhappy about the prices charged by AI. Shocked would probably be a better word than unhappy. I've met kids at AI Star-B-Qs who've persuaded their parents to buy a 'scope from A&S for them. These are the ones that I feel really sorry for. The money they're spending could go a lot further if they just knew that they had options. This is where IFAS is falling down perhaps. As someone suggested elsewhere, it's very important to promote IFAS, to get this site out there and recognised. Maybe AI has more members than IFAS, but we have more astronomers. Next time you're looking out at Orion, as I'm hoping to do in a couple of minutes, put the whole thing in perspective:

Things have been worse, now they are better, and they look like they are getting better all the time. Let's promote our site as best we can, and not worry about things that are fairly unimportant.

Ad Astra.

Shane

Ditto!

Fintan