Observatory, telescope and equipment advice needed!

Hi guys,

A very strange request here. Imagine you were given the task of constructing a fully functional observatory. Here are the specifics of the situation:

1) The observatory is to be built on an already pre-selected site in Dublin in the suburbs. You can assume that there's a quite amount of light pollution.

2) Uses would be visual astronomy as well as photographic. It would also be nice to be able to do some other types of research (suggestions anyone?).

3) Must buy 2 telescopes. Specifically a HydrogenAlpha solar telescope and a 16" or 20" permanent telescope (or other type if you think it might be better). This telescope must obviously be able to track for photos and it must have GOTO.

4) Must buy 2" eyepieces for the permanent telescope and relevant eyepieces for the HA solar telescope.

5) Must buy photographic equipment for use with BOTH telescopes.


I'd like some advice on how you might go about the above!

What sort of equipment would people here buy given the above scenario and requirements? I know very little about such expensive equipment - especially photographic.

I'm also interested as to what could be expected, visually and photographically, from such a telescope given that the area is light-polluted.

Don't have a specific idea of budget, so let's assume €100,000 tops. You don't have to include building costs into that but you do have to factor in the cost of a dome.


Advice would be very much appreciated!

Thanks.

Hi,
First of all, you better go to the bank and get a big loan now.
You'll need at least an Astrophysics if not a Paramount class mount for such a large scope.
www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/mounts/1200gto/1200gto
www.atscope.com.au/paramount.html
A third option would be to go for a meade 16" lx200 or a 16" or 20" RCX400 with the mad max mount :lol:

www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-603-636-7837
The add says you can get the dsi at a reduced price if you buy this, a laughable offer given the size and caliber of this setup..

If you go for a astrophysics or paramount, then you can get what ever OTA you can afford, be it a Lx200 or an RCOS.

Your h-alpha scope would easily piggyback on any of these mounts.

Once you have the mount and tube decided on, you then need to build an observatory around it, be it a rolloff, rollaway or dome setup.
The first 2 would be a modified or built from scratch wooden/block shed, the third can be bought from Sirius domes or Telescope House.
A serious telescope needs a serious observatory.
www.siriusobservatories.com/

As for eyepieces, the world is your oyster, but if you're going to spend that kind of money to get the equipment above, then maybe 2 or 3 naglers would be in order.

As for CCD cameras, SAC, SBIG, Apogee just to name a few offer great cameras, these can range in price from less then 1000E to well over 15000E. you'll probabily need a colour filter wheel so as to help combat light pollution.

So given the above with a budjet of E100,000, then I'd get a 20" RCOS, it comes at a price of $51300 and that doesnt include shipping.
I'd get a Paramount ME to carry it, it comes in at around $12,500.

www.rcopticalsystems.com/20inchtruss.html
www.rcopticalsystems.com/paramount.html
A sirius dome could cost between 10,000-20,000E, we'll say 15000.

This leaves us with aprox 35,000E given current exchange rates.
you could easily blow 10,000-15,000 on a top end CCd camera and filter set, another 1000 on a PC to run it all, leaving us with say 20,000 left.

A solarmax 90 with <0.5 angstrom bandpass would cost ~9500E, leaving 11500.
From this, you would need to get a pillar and eyepieces which should not be a problem, then you need someone to build all this for you presuming you dont build it yourself. I'd recommend you get the pillar made at a local metal works, that is what I did and it worked out alot cheaper and better then buying one in.
I would get a third scope in this setup, a 4 or 6 inch apo refractor for the planets.

This is all quickly thrown together, it would cost over the bones of 100 grand to build, it makes for an interesting wish list.
If you build this and need someone to run it, just give me a call

If you build this and need someone to run it, just give me a call

No Pick me :lol:

You need to spend a good bit of time deciding what you want to do. Forget the budget for a moment and think what you want to achieve. My goals are astrometry, photometry and pretty pictures. Solar imaging is not a goal but I could achieve it - possibly not Halpha imaging but I've not really looked into that.

Astrometry and photometry will give you the ability to do important research. Pretty pictures will keep you sane. Visual observing will also be a good distraction and solar observing will double your available time.

Talking of time, you need to think about how much time you can devote to your goals. If its only a few hours a week, or just weekends, I'd suggest you pare down the budget and expectation about 90%. If you are prepared to spend pretty much all youe spare time (if you work) then fair enough.

The next major consideration is will the observatory be manually operated or robotic - or somewhere in between. If its fully robotic, then your choices will be limited and your costs will increase (though 100K would be enough). But that will discount visual work...

Robotic: Paramount ME. Robotic dome (technical innovations, Sirius), RC 16", cloudsensor, remote software, halpha scope, SBIg or Finger Lakes - back-thinned if you can afford it; BVRI filters and wheel; computer, broadband connection (if control room is a significant distance away) or ethernet network. Lots of software (catalogues, astrometry/photometry software etc etc); electronic focuser, equipment rotator. Dewheater.

Partially robotic - roll-off roof observatory; paramount or AP1200, RC 16" and pretty much everything as above.

If you've 100K, avoid the mass manufacturers. Meade RCX's are not getting a good name (mount issues) and the OTA is apparently not that good (for the money you'd spend). However, the meade 16" OTA's are supposedly pretty good. But if you're going to spend that money, an RCOS or OGS RC scope can't be beat. The Paramount can only be operatoed by computer - there is no keypad. The AP1200 can be used standalone. Both would struggle with anything more than a 16" OTA with all the other kit you propose unless you go for a Dream Scope using very lightweight materials ($$$).

Of course, if this was a realistic budget, you should consider buying a plot of land on La Pama - seriously. You'd have to cut back on the kit but you'd have over 200 clear nights a year rather than 80 or so here. Or even buy a fully serviced plot in Arizona/New Mexico (power, dome, mount and communication connections plus tech support on-site).

I would be delighted to quote you for a full managed project from start to end and I'd throw in Dave Lillis and John Murphy as observatory assistants

In all honesty, you might get mileage from talking to some opg the folks that supply professional observatories (RCOS, OGS, Puckett etc)

Oh for that kind of budget...

Dave

You need to spend a good bit of time deciding what you want to do. Forget the budget for a moment and think what you want to achieve.

Don't worry, Dave. I'm not some crazed amateur who just won the lottery jumping into a big decision. We've got a fair bit of time before any decisions are made. That's why I'm doing my research early!

Ok, these are the goals. Please bear in mind that these are not my necessarily my specific goals but also that of others:

Visual astronomy in order to generate interest for amateur astronomers and the lay public.

Pretty pictures are definitely welcome as they can sometimes justify the very building of this observatory in some people's minds.

Some sort of research facility to high school / undergrad university standard. I'm afraid I know next to nothing about this side of astronomy. I do recall a neighbour showing me the spectrum of a star. That sort of thing would be interesting for physics students for instance. Maybe you could elaborate on astrometry and photometry and the sort of equipment needed for it.

Definitely want a facility for solar observation! It means specifically that classes/public could come out and use the equipment at reasonable times. I would very much like to be able to do solar imaging (this I have a great personal interest in but I've never had such equipment available - it's usually with a 70mm refractor and a Canon 20D).

Talking of time, you need to think about how much time you can devote to your goals. If its only a few hours a week, or just weekends, I'd suggest you pare down the budget and expectation about 90%. If you are prepared to spend pretty much all youe spare time (if you work) then fair enough.

I understand what you're saying here. However, this isn't my budget, and the opportunity isn't going to hang around forever. Therefore I need to do it correctly first time around. I am of course prepared to put in all the hours to learn all the equipment (it's quite an upgrade from an 8" Dob!). Even though I know a fair bit about astronomy and equipment, this is a big change. However, it's the sort of opportunity one can only dream about and I'm not going to let that slip! It's also worth noting that I won't necessarily be the only person using it, so it should get a fair amount of use besides me.

The next major consideration is will the observatory be manually operated or robotic - or somewhere in between. If its fully robotic, then your choices will be limited and your costs will increase (though 100K would be enough). But that will discount visual work...

Hmm, I don't need it to be fully robotic in that I certainly intend to be with the telescope whenever it is being used. However, I obviously want it to have tracking. It would be nice to have it linked up to a PC unit and to be able to control it from there, especially if we're going to have instruments attached. I think we can leave the dome as non-robotic...

If you've 100K, avoid the mass manufacturers. Meade RCX's are not getting a good name (mount issues) and the OTA is apparently not that good (for the money you'd spend). However, the meade 16" OTA's are supposedly pretty good. But if you're going to spend that money, an RCOS or OGS RC scope can't be beat. The Paramount can only be operatoed by computer - there is no keypad. The AP1200 can be used standalone. Both would struggle with anything more than a 16" OTA with all the other kit you propose unless you go for a Dream Scope using very lightweight materials ($$$).

I'm interested to hear that the RCX's aren't so great. When you say mount issues, can you elaborate? The Mad Max and 20" RCX looked a good choice.

RCOS are very expensive! OGS are simply out of the question! I'll have to go back and start getting some definite idea of how much we have to play around with. Then perhaps an RCOS might cut the bill.

Of course, if this was a realistic budget, you should consider buying a plot of land on La Pama - seriously. You'd have to cut back on the kit but you'd have over 200 clear nights a year rather than 80 or so here. Or even buy a fully serviced plot in Arizona/New Mexico (power, dome, mount and communication connections plus tech support on-site).

Trust me, if it were purely my project (or any of my money), I'd be there in a heartbeat. But the original situation that I quoted is just the way it is. The site is fixed and there's NO movement from that.

I would be delighted to quote you for a full managed project from start to end and I'd throw in Dave Lillis and John Murphy as observatory assistants

Ha! I'm sorry but I can't do that. I do appreciate the advice and I hope to talk to you guys more and more over the summer. While I can't offer any finances (I'm not being paid either), I will offer you some playtime with the new toys when it's all finshed.


Thanks again. (particularly interested to hear more about the RCX's)

Hi,
First of all, you better go to the bank and get a big loan now.
You'll need at least an Astrophysics if not a Paramount class mount for such a large scope.
www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/mounts/1200gto/1200gto
www.atscope.com.au/paramount.html
A third option would be to go for a meade 16" lx200 or a 16" or 20" RCX400 with the mad max mount :lol:

The loan is already in the bag, so no worries there. From the looks of it, we're going to need either a Paramount or the Mad MAX (which does look seriously nice!). Seems good coupled with the 20" RCX unless you can tell me about the issues Dave mentioned.

www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-603-636-7837
The add says you can get the dsi at a reduced price if you buy this, a laughable offer given the size and caliber of this setup..

LOL! A 1% saving!

If you go for a astrophysics or paramount, then you can get what ever OTA you can afford, be it a Lx200 or an RCOS.

Your h-alpha scope would easily piggyback on any of these mounts.

Ok, so far I like either the Meade RCX400 and Mad MAX or the Paramount and either 16" or 20" RCOS depending on how tight the budget is.

There's no doubt that the solar scope has to be the SolarMax90 <.5a. Not sure how to piggback things just yet but I'm sure I'll learn.

Once you have the mount and tube decided on, you then need to build an observatory around it, be it a rolloff, rollaway or dome setup.
The first 2 would be a modified or built from scratch wooden/block shed, the third can be bought from Sirius domes or Telescope House.
A serious telescope needs a serious observatory.
www.siriusobservatories.com/

It's got to be a dome. I think we're going to build a brick housing and then place the dome on top. Does that sound reasonable? I know there are trees quite close by so I would really like to raise it up a bit so that we get some clearance. Good to kill the light pollution all the same. We're looking to have a pillar placed in too.

As for eyepieces, the world is your oyster, but if you're going to spend that kind of money to get the equipment above, then maybe 2 or 3 naglers would be in order.

Looks nice. A 31mm, 20mm and 12mm would be a nice little set.

As for CCD cameras, SAC, SBIG, Apogee just to name a few offer great cameras, these can range in price from less then 1000E to well over 15000E. you'll probabily need a colour filter wheel so as to help combat light pollution.

Ok, I really have no idea on this front. I'll need some specific help from people in deciding which might be best. Also depends on budget by the end of it all!

So given the above with a budjet of E100,000, then I'd get a 20" RCOS, it comes at a price of $51300 and that doesnt include shipping.
I'd get a Paramount ME to carry it, it comes in at around $12,500.

A sirius dome could cost between 10,000-20,000E, we'll say 15000.

A solarmax 90 with <0.5 angstrom bandpass would cost ~9500E, leaving 11500.

From this, you would need to get a pillar and eyepieces which should not be a problem, then you need someone to build all this for you presuming you dont build it yourself. I'd recommend you get the pillar made at a local metal works, that is what I did and it worked out alot cheaper and better then buying one in.
I would get a third scope in this setup, a 4 or 6 inch apo refractor for the planets.

Looks a nice set-up. Yeah, I think the pillar will be made up here rather than bought from abroad. We'll have to see in any case. Don't think the 3rd scope is on the cards. Getting enough as it is!

If you build this and need someone to run it, just give me a call

Can't offer you the running of it, but you'll be welcome to come visit and play with it! It's all gonna a take a while though


Thanks for your help and links. They're extremely useful!