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Scopes etc Price Comparison
- JohnONeill
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16 years 6 months ago #67194
by JohnONeill
Scopes etc Price Comparison was created by JohnONeill
Hi,
(Posted again to this new thread)
More price comparisons (I have started a new thread, as much of the material on the previous thread was not relevant to this) :
I picked a TV scope at random, and a bunch of suppliers at random.
Tele Vue NP101
This is a short focal length, apochromatic 101mm refractor (2" diagonal included), no mount included.
SCS: £2349 inc GB vat = €3051
Green Witch: £3200 inc GB vat - €4156
Telescope House: £3399 in GB vat = € 4414
Telescope Service : €3150 inc German vat
Bintel Australia AUS$ 4331 = €2632 + 25% taxes = €3291
OPT;Adorama $3295 = €2126 + 25% taxes = €2657
(shipping not included),
John
(Posted again to this new thread)
More price comparisons (I have started a new thread, as much of the material on the previous thread was not relevant to this) :
I picked a TV scope at random, and a bunch of suppliers at random.
Tele Vue NP101
This is a short focal length, apochromatic 101mm refractor (2" diagonal included), no mount included.
SCS: £2349 inc GB vat = €3051
Green Witch: £3200 inc GB vat - €4156
Telescope House: £3399 in GB vat = € 4414
Telescope Service : €3150 inc German vat
Bintel Australia AUS$ 4331 = €2632 + 25% taxes = €3291
OPT;Adorama $3295 = €2126 + 25% taxes = €2657
(shipping not included),
John
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- Jared Macphester
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16 years 6 months ago #67363
by Jared Macphester
Replied by Jared Macphester on topic Re: Scopes etc Price Comparison
In view of your researching of this topic let me ask a sort of extension question. If one were purchasing is there an advantage (in your opinion) in using one form of payment over another. ie credit card v money transfer v money order. I ask because exchange rates can vary depending on device used. Is there a good place to look up or compare current conversion rates (that you might be aware off).
Purchasing strategy if you will.
Actually thats a number of questions!
Thanks for the comparison, it is interesting to see the price variation.
JMP
Purchasing strategy if you will.
Actually thats a number of questions!
Thanks for the comparison, it is interesting to see the price variation.
JMP
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- pj30something
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16 years 6 months ago #67375
by pj30something
Paul C
My next scope is going to be a Vixen VMC200L Catadioptric OTA
Replied by pj30something on topic Re: Scopes etc Price Comparison
It never ceases to AMAZE me the price difference for the same scopes from different shops in different countries (even when you factor in the exchange rate and shipping).
The Vixen scope i am looking at costs about €1300 (without shipping costs)if i import it from Germany. Yet the same scope imported from America is about €800 (without shipping costs).
Only trouble is.............................not MANY companies in America ship to Ireland.
WHY IS THIS?
The Vixen scope i am looking at costs about €1300 (without shipping costs)if i import it from Germany. Yet the same scope imported from America is about €800 (without shipping costs).
Only trouble is.............................not MANY companies in America ship to Ireland.
WHY IS THIS?
Paul C
My next scope is going to be a Vixen VMC200L Catadioptric OTA
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- jhoare
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16 years 6 months ago #67423
by jhoare
John
Better that old people should die of talk than to have young people die in war.
Replied by jhoare on topic Re: Scopes etc Price Comparison
It's not just the shipping costs. You also have to take into account that manufacturers (or in the case of the less costly products, logo owners) limit warranties by region and may charge different prices in different regions to cover the additional cost of shipping and handling that is incurred if they have to return defective units after repair. Let's look at a real cost because the US price does not include sales tax whereas European prices include both duty and VAT. People also think that duty and VAT add 25% before shipping and forget to add the VAT on the shipping cost.
Let's say you buy a $1,000 telescope from the US and shipping & insurance costs $100:
Telescope $1000
Duty $42
Shipping $100
VAT on $1142 is $239.82
Total cost $1381.42
So that would be the cost to you. Now let's say that the scope is part of a grouped shipment to a vendor. The vendor gets the scope at 20% less than the net price to the US customer (i.e. marks up 25%) and the net proportion of the shipping and insurance we can assign to that individual item is $25.
Telescope $750
Duty $31.50
Shipping $25
Cost $806.50
25% Vendor markup $201.625
Subtotal $1008.13
VAT on $1008.13 is $211.71
Total Cost $1219.83
Remember that I've used some arbitrary figures, specifically the markup by US vendors and the cost of shipping and insurance. If the vendor markups were the same and you comply with duty and VAT requirements it should literally cost less to buy a scope here from a vendor who orders large grouped shipments from the manufacturer than to buy it from a US vendor and ship it over as an individual item.
We know that things do not cost less here, so what's happening? One possibiility is that the vendor's markup here is more than that of the US vendor. Another is that the vendor is compelled to order from a distributor, which adds another markup and another shipping cost, both of which will also have VAT applied. It's also possible, as I mentioned earlier, that the manufacturer charges the non-US vendor more than the US vendor to start with in order to cover additional warranty support costs.
Are the biggest variables the markups and do they make the biggest difference where a non-US vendor has to purchase stock through a distributor but a US vendor can buy direct from the logo owner? Yes, if the product is built in the US, but what if it's not?
Every telescope I've bought except the Coronado PST came in a fancy box that had another box inside it and on that box was the slogan "Made In China". The biggest variable may in fact be the company logo, whether it's "Meade", "Celestron" or something else.
Bottom line? A US company logo adds no actual value and in many cases they buy an instrument from the original manufacturer (OEM) as designed by that source with their logo and finish added. The original manufacturer is technically capable of applying the same level of quality control to instruments that they market themselves because it's already part of the package they sell to the likes of Celestron, Meade or Orion. So, in the case of OEM designed telescopes, we would be better off if the vendors who sell to us purchased products directly from the OEM.
That's why (for example) a 102mm Mak branded by Telescope Service costs less than a 102mm Mak with a similar fit from a big name brand. If the telescope you are interested in has the same specification and a similar fit to instruments available from several other brand names it's likely to be this kind of product. Want to save money? Buy the own brand product from a reputable vendor and skip the logo middleman.
Let's say you buy a $1,000 telescope from the US and shipping & insurance costs $100:
Telescope $1000
Duty $42
Shipping $100
VAT on $1142 is $239.82
Total cost $1381.42
So that would be the cost to you. Now let's say that the scope is part of a grouped shipment to a vendor. The vendor gets the scope at 20% less than the net price to the US customer (i.e. marks up 25%) and the net proportion of the shipping and insurance we can assign to that individual item is $25.
Telescope $750
Duty $31.50
Shipping $25
Cost $806.50
25% Vendor markup $201.625
Subtotal $1008.13
VAT on $1008.13 is $211.71
Total Cost $1219.83
Remember that I've used some arbitrary figures, specifically the markup by US vendors and the cost of shipping and insurance. If the vendor markups were the same and you comply with duty and VAT requirements it should literally cost less to buy a scope here from a vendor who orders large grouped shipments from the manufacturer than to buy it from a US vendor and ship it over as an individual item.
We know that things do not cost less here, so what's happening? One possibiility is that the vendor's markup here is more than that of the US vendor. Another is that the vendor is compelled to order from a distributor, which adds another markup and another shipping cost, both of which will also have VAT applied. It's also possible, as I mentioned earlier, that the manufacturer charges the non-US vendor more than the US vendor to start with in order to cover additional warranty support costs.
Are the biggest variables the markups and do they make the biggest difference where a non-US vendor has to purchase stock through a distributor but a US vendor can buy direct from the logo owner? Yes, if the product is built in the US, but what if it's not?
Every telescope I've bought except the Coronado PST came in a fancy box that had another box inside it and on that box was the slogan "Made In China". The biggest variable may in fact be the company logo, whether it's "Meade", "Celestron" or something else.
Bottom line? A US company logo adds no actual value and in many cases they buy an instrument from the original manufacturer (OEM) as designed by that source with their logo and finish added. The original manufacturer is technically capable of applying the same level of quality control to instruments that they market themselves because it's already part of the package they sell to the likes of Celestron, Meade or Orion. So, in the case of OEM designed telescopes, we would be better off if the vendors who sell to us purchased products directly from the OEM.
That's why (for example) a 102mm Mak branded by Telescope Service costs less than a 102mm Mak with a similar fit from a big name brand. If the telescope you are interested in has the same specification and a similar fit to instruments available from several other brand names it's likely to be this kind of product. Want to save money? Buy the own brand product from a reputable vendor and skip the logo middleman.
John
Better that old people should die of talk than to have young people die in war.
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- JohnONeill
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16 years 6 months ago #67492
by JohnONeill
Replied by JohnONeill on topic Re: Scopes etc Price Comparison
Hi,
More price comparisons. Please note that have always included taxes (on the items themselves).
Nagler 7mm Type 6 eyepiece (high quality very wide field eyepiece),
Venturescope £209 in GB Vat = €275
Green-Witch £235 inc GB Vat = €309
SCS Astro £194 inc GB Vat = €255
Telescope Service €238 inc German Vat
Adorama / OPT/ Anacortes $290 + (Irish) 25% Taxes = €238
(I use XE.COM for exchange rates)
Shipping etc not included.
John
More price comparisons. Please note that have always included taxes (on the items themselves).
Nagler 7mm Type 6 eyepiece (high quality very wide field eyepiece),
Venturescope £209 in GB Vat = €275
Green-Witch £235 inc GB Vat = €309
SCS Astro £194 inc GB Vat = €255
Telescope Service €238 inc German Vat
Adorama / OPT/ Anacortes $290 + (Irish) 25% Taxes = €238
(I use XE.COM for exchange rates)
Shipping etc not included.
John
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- jhoare
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16 years 6 months ago #67497
by jhoare
John
Better that old people should die of talk than to have young people die in war.
Replied by jhoare on topic Re: Scopes etc Price Comparison
To clarify my earlier post, as shown in my worked example the taxes are more than 25%. Excluding shipping (on which VAT is 21%) the VAT is calculated on the sum of the sales price and duty (@4.2%), not on the sales price alone, and comes to 21.882% of the latter.
So the total taxes before adding the 21% VAT to shipping & insurance cost represents 26.002% of the advertised US price.
Don't discard a European purchase option before you calculate the shipping. The cost of shipping from the US has increased significantly due to the price of oil. Taking into account the 21% VAT current shipping charges make purchases from the US less attractive unless you are purchasing a low cost item that won't attract duty & VAT.
So the total taxes before adding the 21% VAT to shipping & insurance cost represents 26.002% of the advertised US price.
Don't discard a European purchase option before you calculate the shipping. The cost of shipping from the US has increased significantly due to the price of oil. Taking into account the 21% VAT current shipping charges make purchases from the US less attractive unless you are purchasing a low cost item that won't attract duty & VAT.
John
Better that old people should die of talk than to have young people die in war.
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