Politics

I myself love to rant and bitch with fellow ranters and bitches, no matter what its about. Its the fact that if I really disagree or hate someone/something/ some practice, then I can get it off my chest. Yes, there are somethings I really don't like about A&S, and only a few things I like/approve of... at least I have the right to say what I feel - hence the point of democracy! But, I might make enemies of people who both know, and don't know me. Still, I would like to see an off-topic/astropolitics forum for people like me (seems to be about 10 at least here)...

Any elected democratic power has to set out rules and regulations for the benefit of its members and ensure that these are enforced in so far as possible for the good of all the people. In the case of Internet groups, there are webmasters and moderators who should act to ensure a friendly forum exists to be enjoyed by all members. You seem to feel that you and other “ranters and bitches (I assume you’re not being offensive to women and mean bitchers)” should be allowed to say what you like, irrespective of how irresponsible or offensive it may be. To me, that smacks of anarchy, not democracy. In the SDAS, our association with Gonzaga Astronomy Society means we have a number of schoolchildren as members and other clubs around the country may very well have young members too. Please act with propriety and consider the contents of posts before clicking the Submit button. Remember too that you are trying to attract newcomers to astronomy, not drive them away from IFAS.

...and in defence of Mr. Moore and those who (well, I can only say) side with him, let him come here to 'talk' to us in person. Seanie.

Your implication that those opposing the whinging and whining are necessarily siding with AI or speaking on its behalf is quite insulting. Personally, I have an intelligent mind and am quite capable of formulating opinions of my own and undoubtedly the same goes for others who wish the ten of you would grow up (if there even are as many as ten).

Gordon

If we spend say 30% of the time talking about DM, maby it's us who has the problem.

So long as this board is for Irish Astronomy, the topic of A&S/AI will come up,

Al, I certainly did not suggest that discussions should not take place – please re-read my post.

Sometimes A&S/AI do or say things (or dont do or say things!) that really pisses people off, and is not helpful to encouraging the growth of the hobby.

…..and sometimes members here say things that really p****s people off and is not helpful to encouraging the growth of the hobby.

I'll agree somewhat with Gordon that moderators could bring such threads to an end more quickly when they cease being constructive. Also moderators are also member of the board who may have opinions on matters, of course they will contribute to and sometimes initiate threads.

Moderators can of course initiate and contribute to topics but in that instance, they are acting as members, not moderators. Moderators are appointed to moderate discussions and intervene at an early stage if things are getting out of hand. That is their function. I do not expect moderators to initiate the posting of offensive or irresponsible material or display a propensity to join in or encourage others to do so.

p.p.s I think the issue will ultimately be solved by boredom. Even I'm getting fed up writing about A&S!

Wonderful!

Gordon

I'm sorry Gordon et all, nothing insulatory was meant by my post.

I thought that I made my point clear, thats all. That I have heard DM refer to us as 'that organisation' and 'the forces that be', he has not come on board to defend himself against the ranting and so on. My reference to those who appear to take sides is simply of the fact that he has not come here himself, and only A&S members and/or (I suppose) sympathisers (though plese don't persecute me for the use of that word!) are the only ones that have spoken for him.

I fear this may get out of hand, but in MY defense:
What has fuelled my disposition on the matter of DM/A&S was that on top of all the price hiking, claiming he is the only telescope retailer, the only astronomical club, the only way to find out via premium phonelines when to see the ISS and so on, that he had the audacity and lack of respect to sign his name to an article published by an unknowing astronomer of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific on "Astronomy & Astrology", printed it on his site, and claimed he used it for lectures around Ireland where an admission price was set. I saved it on my computer shortly before I notified him of his highly illegal position claiming credit for an article which was copied word-for-word, and then promptly removed it from sight.

I agree with your said piece 100% on restrictions, even in a democratic population. Without said restrictions, there would be anarchy. I am not an anarchaic person! But it is the freedom to say what is on one's mind that has led me to believe that (within reason), I should be able to give my misgivings across here, even if it is like I am trying to deter people from joining another club/organisation (AI) because they think its all there is. So, I tell them what I know...

...and for the record, I have not once, in my opinion, have said anything libellous or illegal in these matters on these boards (or any). I just say the facts as I have seen, heard, and read - most, direct from the source of these arguments.

Again, like others before me, and no doubt a few more after me, I am sorry if my comments have led some to take slight offence or insult from my post. There is no harm meant.

Clearest Skies.

WOW ... people have been busy posting here since yesterday!

OK, firstly, the suggestion that it should be mandetory to post your name, that is un-policable so there is no point. If I don't sign my posts and then a mod tried to force me to I will sign it Mr. M. Mouse or some such and there is no way to poove that I am not called Markus Mouse or some such. We can request that people not hide behind usernames but by the very nature of the internet there is no way to do any more than that.

Secondly, after a lot of thinking I am completely against the idea of a separate forum for politics. It think it would encourage MORE of the kind of stuff people don't like to see rather than less!

What MAY be a good idea is a "Rant" board for people to let off steam in on ALL matters that annoy them relating to astronomy but such a board would have to be VERY tightly moderated and again I could see it causing more problems than it solves to all in all I think the solution is simply to instruct all moderators to keep a closer eye on things and perhaps to replace moderators who are not online enough to keep a good eye on their baords.

Bart B.,
IFAS Webmaster.

I think the solution is simply to instruct all moderators to keep a closer eye on things and perhaps to replace moderators who are not online enough to keep a good eye on their baords. Bart B.,
IFAS Webmaster.

Bart,

Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a number of moderators floating between all the boards rather than allocate moderators to particular boards. That way, there is more chance that a moderator will be on online at any given time.

Gordon

Hi All,
Someone who uses this forum (I won't embarrass them) explained to me in detail the other night the origins of the split in Irish Astronomy. As I was living abroad at the time the "big argument" happened I listened intently. What a sorry state of affairs we are all in.
But I will get back to that later.
Regarding a political forum I feel there should NOT be one. It would not be balanced. As it stands it would only be a bitching forum against AI. All the other member clubs of IFAS cannot be doing everything right!
I actually agree with a lot of what Gordan and Albert say regarding moderation of such a political forum. We are bound to run ourselves into threats of legal action every time we slag off AI, as proven recently by the vicious reaction to "that thread and photo". We could end up spending more time extricating ourselves from legal arguments.
Back to the sorry state of affairs.
There are two observations which I would like to make about all the posts on this thread so far. Two military comparisons (allegedly).
1. Divide and Conquer. This is what DM has done. This is what he is good at. This is why he does not bother responding directly to any comments on this or other forums. The more we argue amongst ourselves the better it is for him!
2. The best method of defence is offence. Which is why IFAS should have a press officer to let our national broadcaster and press know that there is much more to astronomy in Ireland than AI. A newspaper reporter I know expressed surprise that there were loads of local groups throughout the country which had nothing to do with AI at all. He had never heard of the annual Whirlpool event for example. IFAS should have a national event annually, under its own name.

Regards,
Brian Seales