Discussion on THAT thread

Spaceboy,
I find your reaction to the photos to be a little bit strange. I do not understand what was offensive about the photos, except, you are an employee of AI and feel the alleged offense to be personal.
I think you shoud look at other threads on this site and you will find similar comments and expressions. I have always found the general trends on this site to be fair and balanced and find your reaction to be unusual to say the least.
If you are going to demand retractions perhaps you could have the good manners to do it in the open and not behind a pseudonym. This site has and continues to be a forum for discussion and education about astronomy and for astronomers of all types and sensorship of any kind is not good.
I laughed when I saw the photos and mentally congratulated the composers as I thought it was very inteligent and would probably have made the subjects laugh if they were aware of circumstances around the magazine and its originators.
Please be a bit more tolerant with us and should you have issue with anything else on this site, we are prepared to discuss it with you and any one else who feels the need to get involved. To have to resort to the legal system for something like this is a bit over the top. Whilst you are entitled to be offended about anything you please, can you explain why you found this thread so offensive as your post does not fully explain it. It may prevent further offending posts.
With respect
Clear Skies and Regards
Peter

Like Peter my initial reaction was one of laughter. I'm certain the post was meant as a joke and I took it as such. However, it soon became clear that others see it very differently. Everyone's sense of humour is different, normally that just manifests it self as some laughing and some just thinking its not funny but in this case the images seem to have really polarised people. Peole either found the images very funny or very offensive. I too am curious why these images had such a dramatic polarising effect.

Bart B.,
IFAS Webmaster.

I think Spaceboy was absolutely correct to complain about this image. It was inappropriate in a forum dedicated to the promotion of astronomy and the interests of Irish astronomers*. I think Cobyrne made the image as a joke, and I certainly laughed at it when I saw it first. I also expected it to have a shelf-life of less than 24 hours. For some reason Hitler has become the bugbear of the 20th century, despite the fact that Stalin has been a greater mass-murderer. I have to wonder also, if it had been a picture of Mao would the reaction have been the same. I doubt it, although Mao is at least as evil and tyrranical a despot as Hitler.

Put yourselves in Spaceboy's position. Had that been a picture of Herr Hitler holding Arcturus would you have liked it? I certainly wouldn't. (As a small aside, I'd love to put a copy of A&S versus a copy of Arcturus in a head-to-head in front of an independent judge to see which would be considered the better. I know where my money would go!)

It was meant as a joke, it wasn't funny (much), it's gone, problem solved. Spaceboy was right to get annoyed at it in my opinion. He was wrong to immediately threaten legal action. That's peurile and typical of litigious rip-off Ireland. It's disappointing. He choses to remain anonymous, and that's his business. It's not for me, but neither is it up to me. Spaceboy comes on here and defends his corner against people who strongly and vehemently disagree with him. That's not an easy thing to do. He should be given credit for that.

*unlike certain other organisations we promote and encourage people to get involved in astronomy rather than to try and profit from them. If any of this content is libellious, then sue, don't just threaten it, get off your ass and sue. That would REALLY benefit the hobby!

Just to re-state the last thing I said on the previous thread - I intend to fully comply with the requests made of me by the webmaster. Apart from that, I have nothing further to say on the subject until I have had a chance to talk to lawyers.

Thanks,
Chris.

I have been reading these boards for a long while now but always resisted the urge to post. But quite frankly I've had enough. I make no secret that I was heavily involved with AI a few years back and that I am a current paid up member. I saw that image and was instantly offended for two reasons.

1 - Hitler. spculleton is quite right. I dont need to recount what Hitler was. Using his image in this way was in bad taste at the very least and is offensive in itself to the jewish community in particular. I the author is who I think it is then I am quite frankly very dissapointed.

2 - A&S is a damn good magazine. You can say what you like about A&S as an organisation and berate its major shareholder as you see fit. However, A&S stands up there with anything produced in the british isles. I can tell you that as a paying subscriber, I am pleased as punch to see such a high quality magazine being produced on these shores. I wonder how many people in this land read A&S and then go outside to see if its clear and take a peek at the astro events described between its covers. Surely thats what promoting astronomy is about? Getting warm bodies out into cold air, if A&S does that, then what does it matter whether you or anyone else thinks of how A&S Ltd is run?


The way I see it is this. A&S is a limited liability company who is in business for a couple of reasons. 1 to make money, 2 to make astro equipment available to the irish amateur,3 to raise funds to go back into AI and promote astronomy in this country. It's founder (like him or not) has invested years and years of his life to promoting astronomy in this country, he does this full time. The man has to make a living somehow, and I for one wish him well doing it. Other people promote astronomy for a living, Sir Pat doesn't do the Sky at Night for nothing does he?

Maybe those who seem to spend their time berating him might consider spending some of the time they spend posting ill considered 'jokes' and actually spend some of that time getting out there and helping get people interested in astronomy and catering for those who already have.

I know, over the years, I had had many stand up rows with DM, but he has always listened and at least considered what I had to say. He welcomes anyone who has an opinion or something constructive to offer. If you dont like what he does then at least have the guys to phone him and tell him so. Stop hiding behind this board.

I never understand why some organisations seem to see AI as a threat. Most of my best astronomy memories are not of seeing the scars on jupiter after the sl9 impacts, not of standing on a feezing mountain at 3am looking at hale-bopp, but they are of seeing the smile on a childs face after they have seen the rings of saturn for the first time and just that little hope that I may have justed sparked something that might live with that person for the rest of his/her life. 99% of these memories were made at AI events. Isnt that what it s all about?

This nonsense has to stop, period.

Clear Skies to all,

David.

Spaceboy,

Legally you haven't a leg to stand on and you know it! The "Hitler picture in question, in no ways links AI to Hitler or the Nazi party.
It simply suggests that Hitler may have liked to read A&S. While the joke may have been of questionable taste (although honestly, I did laugh it!)
it was not in the least bit libelous.

The way I see it is this. A&S is a limited liability company who is in business for a couple of reasons. 1 to make money, 2 to make astro equipment available to the irish amateur,3 to raise funds to go back into AI and promote astronomy in this country. It's founder (like him or not) has invested years and years of his life to promoting astronomy in this country, he does this full time. The man has to make a living somehow, and I for one wish him well doing it.

Sorry Dave, but this is the way I see.
David Moore does NOT promote astronomy in Ireland, David Moore promotes David Moore! Nobody here would begrudge the man making a living, and believe it or not, we would all love to be able to buy our astronomy equipment at home and not have to import it! However, the prices charged by Astronomy Ireland (or A&S, whichever!) make that impossible. His prices promote the notion that astronomy is an expensive hobby and I feel, frightens people away from it.

I started into astronomy about a year ago, and having seen DM on TV3, bought A&S and went to the Astronomy Ireland web-site to find out more. I was very quickly disillusioned at what I saw. The magazine seemed to me, to be for a Dublin based club and not the whole country! The web-site had a very "hard sell" attitude and almost made me just give up the whole idea! However, I didn't. With my disatisfaction in one hand, and my mouse in the other, I kept searching..... and found this web-site which opened up the world of astronomy to me.

I know, over the years, I had had many stand up rows with DM, but he has always listened and at least considered what I had to say. He welcomes anyone who has an opinion or something constructive to offer. If you dont like what he does then at least have the guys to phone him and tell him so. Stop hiding behind this board.

Hiding?.....This is a public forum and DM is welcome to read all that is said here! Personally, I hope he does.... but is he interested in what we have to say? He generally denies that we exist!

I never understand why some organisations seem to see AI as a threat........ Most of my best astronomy memories are not of seeing the scars on jupiter after the sl9 impacts, not of standing on a feezing mountain at 3am looking at hale-bopp, but they are of seeing the smile on a childs face after they have seen the rings of saturn for the first time and just that little hope that I may have justed sparked something that might live with that person for the rest of his/her life. 99% of these memories were made at AI events. Isnt that what it s all about?

Who sees who as a threat? Astro Expo is the only star party I know of the does not allow other irish astronomy clubs to have a stand! All the other clubs promote one another and in doing so, promote astronomy! My son will also have memories of seeing the rings of Saturn, and of seeing the beauty of the night sky. He will not however, have to pay (through the nose!) for the privilege of doing it!

This nonsense has to stop, period.

Too bloody right!

P.S. Dave, welcome aboard!