Discussion on THAT thread

God, I thought once the thread on this was removed that it would be the end of it but alas no. I have to answer this, sorry in advance Bart.

Dave Greenan wrote
" Hitler. spculleton is quite right. I dont need to recount what Hitler was. Using his image in this way was in bad taste at the very least and is offensive in itself to the jewish community in particular. I the author is who I think it is then I am quite frankly very dissapointed."

Be disappointed all you want Dave after all you are entitled to your opinion on this forum. Chris made a joke which has been blown out of all proportions by some people. I stand by his integrity as a person and having traveled extensively with him over the last 5 years can vouch for the fact that he is not one to offend people of other religions or races out of hand. YOU raised the topic of the photo being offensive to the Jewish community. I lived amongst the Jewish community in East London for many years and they appear to be able to handle the question of Hitler and the Nazis far better than some people here obviously can. They continue to do so with great dignity and do not need any of us to speak up in their defence. Of course Hitler and his like were evil personified but I wonder if Chris had posted a photo of Osama Bin Laden or Idi Amin with that magazine under his arm would people have reacted as they did? I somehow don't think so.
I also recall a cartoon of Michael Mc Dowell, in the Herald, I think, a few months back dressed in a Nazi type uniform and giving a salute to Bertie. I dont recall any great commotion about that at the time. Perhaps we all need to chill out a bit, and hope for clear skies so as we can practice our astronomy instead of arguing amongst ourselves.

You also wrote

"Maybe those who seem to spend their time berating him (DM) might consider spending some of the time they spend posting ill considered 'jokes' and actually spend some of that time getting out there and helping get people interested in astronomy and catering for those who already have. "

Well this proves how little you know about Chris or myself. I personally took great offence from this comment ( I have calmed down now ). We left AI so as we could share our experiences and interest in astronomy WITHOUT people having to shell out money every time they wanted some information or have a look through a scope in the Phoenix Park. We have brought a smile to many a face over the last few years and believe you me, it is even more enjoyable when it can be done for free! This raises another point, have you ever tried to leave AI? After 4 years I still get mail, e-mails and now phone messages despite asking for none of them and trying to stop them.

All spaceboy had to do was point out the fact , on the forum, that he was offended by the photo. Chris was already deep in discussion as to the effect the photo might have, after it was pointed out to him by me amongst others. Instead legal action was threatened. This I am afraid is a typical AI response. On many an occasion when I was involved with AI this "legal action" phrase was thrown around by those in charge. It seemed to me at the time to be just another way of enforcing their doctrine. Spaceboy has obviously been infected with the same bug.
As for spaceboy choosing to remain unknown, well I cannot respond to him properly as he is just a ...........nobody at this stage.

Dave, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to all this and I am sorry that your first post to the forum was instigated by something not directly astronomy related. Perhaps we shall meet up at one of the star parties and discuss nothing but astronomy and eclipse chasing over a pint.
That would be the gentlemany way to handle these matters. If you do not fancy this then I am afraid it is pistols at dawn then.... :lol:

Regards to all
Brian Seales

Ah lads and lassies...

The poster clearly was not implying that AI/A&S/DM were in any way responsiblefor the hollocaust. It was meant as a joke, and I found it amusing. Many didn't, fair enough, however only one posted to the board complaining and then did so by going completely overboard. Its a public forum, if you think something said is wrong, log in and refute it, ask nicley that the content be removed, had I seen civil complaints I probably would have supported removing that particular image. Threatening legal action, and referring to the site in derogatary terms does not help anyone.

A little while ago I created a thread to try to articulate some of the reasons why I stopped subscribing to A&S and opinions that I felt _some_ others here held. www.irishastronomy.org/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1154
Please feel free to have a rational conversation about the running of A&S/AI there if you wish. Unfortunately it seems that people wishing to support the A&S/AI point of view only step in when there are contravercial threads and then do so rather vigorously. Folks there is a thread there for civil discussion, and I encourage those who wish to engage to do so.

A few points that are worth repeating here since another poster brought them up. A&S Magazine: Want to subscribe to a magazine? Great go to easons flick through them all and pick whats best for you. You prefer A&S fine, but please stick around this website too! Some people dont like it, hey thats their opinion.

Maybe those who seem to spend their time berating him might consider spending some of the time they spend posting ill considered 'jokes' and actually spend some of that time getting out there and helping get people interested in astronomy and catering for those who already have.

I'm about to post a joke. And I think I spend quite a bit of time getting people interested in astronomy. Often without the help of AI/A&S who have so far not published articles I sent on light pollution, not put up a link to ILPAC (I have sent our link on darksky.org in case they preferred to use that), not responded to a request for a stand at Astro-Expo (which I hope will happen next year). At this point mails I send to info@astronomy.ie regarding light pollution do not get a reply. What do I need to do in order to get some light pollution coverage/help? If you don't engage I dont know what you want. As a sign of goodwill recently I put up a link to Astronomy Ireland from the ILPAC site, as yet no return link has appeared. So think about what AI/A&S can do to help astronomy rather than telling us what to do. Want us to do more? ok, a free public discussion board, free bimonthly downloadable magazines, free observing handbooks. Yea, we really should start helping to support and promote astronomy...

I never understand why some organisations seem to see AI as a threat.

Do they? Hardly a friend though when they dont publish articles I send, add a link on the website...

99% of these memories were made at AI events.

You do outreach 99% with AI events, cool. I do free sidewalk astronomy in sandymount, or Killiney, or once to 50 or so Sicilians during the venus transit without any Italian! This kind of thing does not depend on the club you are in. And any of the clubs in IFAS would weclome you along to any of their observing sessions without any questions about what magazine you subscribe to.

Ah yes, my joke:


Why is that funny? I think having the Irish section leader of the International dark sky association reading an article on astrophotography in a magazine that on its frot cover has an image of one of the worst light polluting structures in the country amusingly ironic. No? I'll get me coat...

p.s. If any of the editorial staff of A&S are reading let me restate what I said in a mail to info@ last month, if there are any further guidelines regarding word count, or general content please let me know so that I can supply you with a document that would be acceptable for publication. If there are things that I am not allowed to mention in the magazine you need to tell me!

p.p.s if anyone compares me to Hitler or Buzz over that image, or says that my presence in an image is offensive, then I'll... I'll... well I'll probably break down in despair and weep for humanity!

p.p.p.s yes I do know I go on and on about light pollution!

I must object to that picture of Albert White holding that magazine. As a member of the Barbers Professional Union of Ireland I feel that persons of long hair associating themselves with this magazine is derogatory and does not help to promote ...

I'm sorry, I can't keep it up. That is a funny picture, but also a deeply ironic and troubling one, for all of the reasons that Al has stated. A great caption would be;"because I'm worth it!"

Isn't it terribly ironic that people who are paid-up members of an organisation which does not allow them to voice their criticism in any public way are free to come on here and criticise this organisation. Cop on to yourselves lads. IFAS does more to promote astronomy in Ireland than Astronomy & Space (trading as Astronomy Ireland) does. Coming on to a radio station and telling people that the largest white elephant in existence will be 'blazing' across the sky and that to find out when you must ring a premium rate number and then to not tell people that times are free on heavens-above is not, NOT, N O T, promoting astronomy. That is profiteering. Have a free bi-monthly magazine, setting up observing challenges, having the three best star parties on the island is, IS, I S , promoting astronomy. Did it feel nice to know that the young boy who had just been introduced to the majesty of Saturn's rings paid 2 euro to your "organisation" for the privelige? As regards A&S ltd supporting AI, that's a crock of bollox. You have 8,000+ members. At forty euro each. 320,000 euro in subscription, sorry, membership fees. Fiver each per lecture, two euro a peek through a telescope, around twenty euro for a humdrum event with bad food in Roundwood (even the food is sponsored!) and an astro-expo. You guys are rolling in it! You don't need a shop to support you (unless there's something we don't know about the membership). And if I was you I wouldn't be at all worried about the tax complications. :lol:

Chris; your image was inappropriate. Bloody hilarious, but inappropriate. Plenty of joke emails and text-jokes are inappropriate too, and yet I don't see the lawyers queuing up outside the mobile phone company offices. Never mind the detractors. It was made as a joke, meant as a joke, taken as a joke, but Spaceboy (sidekick to Captain Universe - together they will defeat the evil Dr IFAS!) decided to place himself on moral high ground.

Here we go again.

What is it about DM that gets everybody so riled up.

I'm not a fan but neither am I obsessed with him and what he does.

I agree wholeheartedly with Shane when he says "Put yourselves in Spaceboy's position. Had that been a picture of Herr Hitler holding Arcturus would you have liked it? I certainly wouldn't"

I woldn't be too sure about what would and would not be considered to be libelous. Again the question needs to be asked. How would we feel if on the AI site such an image was posted with Arcturus.

You have 8,000+ members. At forty euro each. 320,000 euro in subscription, sorry, membership fees. Fiver each per lecture, two euro a peek through a telescope, ....

I keep repeating myself...


They DON'T have 8,000+ members... They have about 5 or 600...

That 8,000 crap is a register of allllllll the members who joined since 1992/3.

Jeeze, will you guys get your facts right...




And what about that episode during the summer of David Moore taking credit for a pre-written article on Astrology that was property of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific? He actually signed his name to the article as author, and used it (as it was stated) to give lectures around Ireland. THAT was libellous, and when he was challenged by 2 members of these boards, rapidly took it down off the astronomy & space website!

And, what about the charges by the club that doesn't exist?
€40 subscription, pay admission to lectures, pay to look through a scope in the Phoenix Park, probably pay for a reduced magazine price, ask for donations... bla bla bla...

Not supporting other astronomical societies??? Been going on for years Dave & Spaceboy. Read the threads...

Our un-nerving attitude, and sometimes contemptous thoughts towards Astronomy & Space - I refrain from using the words astronomy ireland, as it legally doesn't exist - are well founded. Present your challenges to us to counter our claims, and I for one will back up all that is said before... and there will be a queue behind me following suit.

I am tired of hearing about the poeple who were sick of getting nought from A&S and left - sure, its been said here by members in this very thread!

I can't type anymore... I might type something slightly unsavoury...


A&S sucks!


Seanie.[/b]

They DON'T have 8,000+ members... They have about 5 or 600...

That 8,000 crap is a register of allllllll the members who joined since 1992/3.

Jeeze, will you guys get your facts right...

Eh....... don't want to be pedantic or anything, but DM was actually claiming 10,000+ a couple of weeks ago on his radio show.........