October 2003 telescope price review

Al, I was looking for that kind of info b4 but without luck
Is there a difference between "ASTRONOMY IRELAND LIMITED" Company number 190230
www.cro.ie/search/results.asp?number=190230&BI=C
and "ASTRONOMY & SPACE LIMITED" who are company number 25970
www.cro.ie/search/results.asp?number=259707&BI=C

Strange that the the first group leaves out the word "COMPANY" in their media contacts
I wonder why ??
Charles

Seanie, you were joking when you said 2 euro for a looksee through a scope?

:shock:

Seanie, you were joking when you said 2 euro for a looksee through a scope?

:shock:

I believe that thats standard practice for their public nights, apparently organisers of their `Mars Watches` in august were asked to ask for this donation also and send on any proceeds.

Cheers,
~Al

I believe that thats standard practice for their public nights, apparently organisers of their `Mars Watches` in august were asked to ask for this donation also and send on any proceeds.

Cheers,
~Al

I have been wondering about that. I was under the impression that these 'donations' are used by AI for the benefit of the Club and its members. But judging from the fact that both the 'club' and the shop are setup as limited companies, this would indicate to me that they are both profit-making organisations.

So if the club is making money from the subscriptions, and charging for both starparties (donations) and tickets to astro expo etc. Then I wonder what the balance sheet for the club looks like right now?

Is all that cash going to be used for the benefit of the members? What is the legal/financial status of a club versus a limited company?

Are AI members actually members of a club, or shareholders in a limited company, or just customers of a shop?

Hi,

Just to clarify some things as regards companies here. I'm not going to rant about AI this time dont worry!

"Astronomy Ireland Ltd" is a dissolved company, so no longer exists/trades.

"Astronomy & Space Ltd." is the current company that runs the shop publishes the magazine etc.

In a recent mail to David Moore I put it to him that I felt Astronomy Ireland was nothing more than a marketing tool for A&S Ltd. This was his response, which I hope he wont mind me posting as it clearly spells out how he sees Astronomy Ireland, and is useful to this conversation.

AI is NOT a company it is a non-profit organisation.
However, we do set our ideals as high as trying to be as professionally run as our budget would like.
We actively raise funds and use this to offset the cost of membership benefits and finance the growth of the organisation. It suits a lot of the naysayers in 'old Irish' astronomy to confuse professionalism with commercialism. I can tell you that none of the funds raised by AI go to any 'owner' or 'shareholder' as in a company. None of our volunteers gets paid. Practically no one even claims expenses. Only this year have we employed our first part-time person.

AI is modelled around the format of The Planetary Society, which, by the way, the constitution of the IFAS would also prohibit as it has no elections, no accountability, no AGM etc. What one does is to decide: do I agree with Carl Sagan's dream and what his Planetary Society is doing? If you agree you join. If you do not agree you don't join. Members effectively vote with their feet!
So it is with AI and it is a very good and useful system as one has to continuously think about what do our members want, what does the general public want, what are we doing right, and how can we change things we are doing wrong?

It's just a different system and who is to say which is the best. Not me. Surely there is room for both. Astronomy Ireland has been phenomenally successful. Isn't that something to celebrate 'in general' even if you have a few problems with some of the 'specifics' (which can always be changed).
The clubs around Ireland are great. I am a member of IAA, former president of IAS, etc.
Anyone can contribute in Astronomy Ireland, you'd just have to be prepared to be appointed rather than elected.

Admirable as much of this is there are a few prblems with this also, as the Revenue and the CRO tell me that any non-profit organisations must list as companies and submit annual reports etc. Which AI as far I can see does not do. The similarity with the planetary society is slightly skewed also as they are a registered company in the US, and the proceeds from their shop go to the society, whereas the proceeds of the `AI Shop` go to A&S Ltd. as far as I can tell.

Also how this explains phraseslike `Buy X from the Club Shop`, and why being a `member` involves taking out a subscription to the magazine published by A&S Ltd. is also not clear to me.

Are AI members actually members of a club, or shareholders in a limited company, or just customers of a shop?

Customers of a shop as far as I can see.

Clear as mud?

Cheers,
~Al

I understand how AI works (sorta) after reading that and I understand how A&S works (as it is a publicly limmited company), the bit I have issue with is how they inter-relate. When you "Join AI" your money seems to go to A&S limmited! It all seems very confusing to me!

Bart B.