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Need some help with reflected spectra

  • Equinox
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18 years 10 months ago #29128 by Equinox
Need some help with reflected spectra was created by Equinox
Ok I'm working on my lit survey for next year on exoplanets and there something thats doing my head in. I read in a paper that the only way to accuratly determine the velocity of a planet Vp is through reflected spectra of the planet.

Then reading a paper on reflected spectra I get this:

"With our knowledge of stellar mass and the planet's orbital period we can
estimate the orbital velocity of the planet Vp. The apparent RV amplitude
Kp of the reflected light is given by:
Kp = Vp sin i"

I can't find anything else calling Kp apparent RV amplitude. The same paper later calls it projected orbital velocity. Is it the same thing and if so
what it mean?

"In the event of a planet detection, analysis of the data should allow us
to determine fundamental properties:
(i)Kp, the planets projected orbital velocity, from which we obtain the systems inclination and planet mass, since Mp sin i, is knowcn from the stars Doppler wobble"

If the mass and inclination are already known from doppler, why and how are they getting it from Kp?

Any help greatly appreciated. :)

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18 years 10 months ago #29131 by albertw
Replied by albertw on topic Re: Need some help with reflected spectra

Then reading a paper on reflected spectra I get this:


Got a reference for the paper?
[edit: Rather is it Leigh et. al. Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Volume 344, Issue 4, pp. 1271-1282. ]

I think I've some notes on this at home.

Cheers,
~Al

Albert White MSc FRAS
Chairperson, International Dark Sky Association - Irish Section
www.darksky.ie/

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18 years 10 months ago #29226 by Equinox
Replied by Equinox on topic Re: Need some help with reflected spectra
Sorry should have given the reference.

Collier Cameron et al, "A search for starlight reflected from upsilo And's innermost planet" Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Volume 330, Issue 1, pp. 187-204 (2002)

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18 years 10 months ago #29227 by albertw
Replied by albertw on topic Re: Need some help with reflected spectra
Thanks, if anyone else wants to take a peek its at

adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2001astro.ph.10577C

Albert White MSc FRAS
Chairperson, International Dark Sky Association - Irish Section
www.darksky.ie/

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18 years 10 months ago #29231 by albertw
Replied by albertw on topic Re: Need some help with reflected spectra

I can't find anything else calling Kp apparent RV amplitude. The same paper later calls it projected orbital velocity. Is it the same thing and if so what it mean?


I've just glanced throught he paper.

RV means apparent radial velocity which is usually the velocity that the planet has to or from us, ie the velocity we measure. Which is Sin i times its actual velocity.

Since they describe Kp as 'projected orbital velocity' I guess they really do mean apparent radial velocity. ie its velocity projected as just 'to' and 'from' us. The actual velocity will be higher than what we see unless we are edge on to the planet, so the real orbital velocity (Vo) is related as Kp = Vo Sin i.

In the abstract and equation 3 he mention Kp as ~= 139 Sin i km/s

At least I think thats right :-)

Using the same phrase would help. I used to have a lecturer in UCD who would change his notation on a daily basis. One greek squiggle was as good as another!

Similarly for Mass estimates using doppler techniques, you can only give an upper limit without the knowing the inclination.

Albert White MSc FRAS
Chairperson, International Dark Sky Association - Irish Section
www.darksky.ie/

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18 years 10 months ago #29335 by Equinox
Replied by Equinox on topic Re: Need some help with reflected spectra
Thanks a million!

And don't talk to me about lecturers and their squiggles! One of them insists on using a capital x and a little x for two different things. And do many of them use the greek v for frequency where as I was always taught it was f.

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  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_categories` WHERE `id` = '2'112μs4.66KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaCategories.php:295Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_categories` WHERE `id` = '40'126μs4.66KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaCategories.php:295Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_categories` WHERE `id` = '30'296μs4.66KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaCategories.php:295Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_categories` WHERE `id` = '45'118μs4.66KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaCategories.php:295Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_categories` WHERE `id` = '46'125μs4.66KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaCategories.php:295Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_categories` WHERE `id` = '528'119μs4.66KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaCategories.php:295Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_topics`351μs1.7KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_topics` WHERE `id` = '29128'135μs13.81KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaTopics.php:223Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_messages`320μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT m.*,t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON `m`.`id` = `t`.`mesid` WHERE `m`.`id` = 29128606μs2.53KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaMessages.php:216Copy
  • SELECT COUNT(*) FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '29128' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0)192μs536B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:278Copy
  • SELECT a.id FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '29128' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0) ORDER BY a.`time` ASC LIMIT 6167μs616B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.*, t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON m.id = t.mesid WHERE `m`.`id` IN (29131,29226,29227,29231,29335)672μs2.59KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:120Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_thankyou` WHERE `postid` IN (29128,29131,29226,29227,29231,29335)151μs688B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/Thankyou/KunenaMessageThankyouHelper.php:116Copy
  • SELECT u.name, u.username, u.email, u.block AS blocked, u.registerDate, u.lastvisitDate, ku.*, u.id AS userid FROM `tifas_users` AS `u` LEFT JOIN `tifas_kunena_users` AS `ku` ON `u`.`id` = `ku`.`userid` WHERE `u`.`id` IN (492,69)289μs25.02KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:247Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29128,29131,29226,29227,29231,29335)105μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics` WHERE (`user_id` = '0') AND (`topic_id` IN (29128))101μs1.27KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Topic/User/KunenaTopicUserHelper.php:159Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics`347μs1.42KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT `code`,`location` FROM `tifas_kunena_smileys`84μs960B/libraries/kunena/src/BBCode/KunenaBBCode.php:1122Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_kunena_topics` SET `hits` = (`hits` + 1) WHERE `id` = '29128'416μs48B/libraries/src/Table/Table.php:1325Copy
  • SELECT `m`.`id`,`m`.`title`,`m`.`module`,`m`.`position`,`m`.`content`,`m`.`showtitle`,`m`.`params`,`mm`.`menuid` FROM `tifas_modules` AS `m` LEFT JOIN `tifas_modules_menu` AS `mm` ON `mm`.`moduleid` = `m`.`id` LEFT JOIN `tifas_extensions` AS `e` ON `e`.`element` = `m`.`module` AND `e`.`client_id` = `m`.`client_id` WHERE ( ( (`m`.`published` = 1 AND `e`.`enabled` = 1 AND `m`.`client_id` = :clientId AND `m`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`m`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_up` <= :publishUp)) AND (`m`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_down` >= :publishDown)) AND (`mm`.`menuid` = :itemId OR `mm`.`menuid` <= 0) ORDER BY `m`.`position`,`m`.`ordering`657μs1.86KBParams/libraries/src/Cache/Controller/CallbackController.php:51Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_polls`373μs1.33KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_ranks`101μs1.48KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUser.php:1629Copy
  • SELECT userid, MAX(time) AS time FROM `tifas_session` WHERE `client_id` = 0 AND `userid` > 0 AND `time` > '1744098904' GROUP BY `userid` ORDER BY `time` DESC169μs576B/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:544Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29128)108μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29128)92μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29131)141μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29131)103μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (29131) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`240μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29226)111μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29226)108μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (29226) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`376μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29227)113μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29227)101μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (29227) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`398μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29231)101μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29231)98μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (29231) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`192μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29335)120μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (29335)93μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT DISTINCT a.id, a.title, a.name, a.checked_out, a.checked_out_time, a.note, a.state, a.access, a.created_time, a.created_user_id, a.ordering, a.language, a.fieldparams, a.params, a.type, a.default_value, a.context, a.group_id, a.label, a.description, a.required, a.only_use_in_subform,l.title AS language_title, l.image AS language_image,uc.name AS editor,ag.title AS access_level,ua.name AS author_name,g.title AS group_title, g.access as group_access, g.state AS group_state, g.note as group_note FROM tifas_fields AS a LEFT JOIN `tifas_languages` AS l ON l.lang_code = a.language LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS uc ON uc.id=a.checked_out LEFT JOIN tifas_viewlevels AS ag ON ag.id = a.access LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS ua ON ua.id = a.created_user_id LEFT JOIN tifas_fields_groups AS g ON g.id = a.group_id WHERE ( (`a`.`context` = :context AND `a`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`access` IN (:preparedArray2)) AND `a`.`state` = :state) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`state` = :gstate) AND `a`.`only_use_in_subform` = :only_use_in_subform ORDER BY a.ordering ASC595μs4.03KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_announcement` WHERE `published` = 1 AND (`publish_up` = '1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_up` <= '2025-04-08 08:25:04') AND (`publish_down` ='1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_down` >= '2025-04-08 08:25:04') ORDER BY `id` DESC LIMIT 1106μs1.42KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Announcement/KunenaAnnouncementHelper.php:145Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_jev_users`495μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT `c`.`id`,`c`.`asset_id`,`c`.`access`,`c`.`alias`,`c`.`checked_out`,`c`.`checked_out_time`,`c`.`created_time`,`c`.`created_user_id`,`c`.`description`,`c`.`extension`,`c`.`hits`,`c`.`language`,`c`.`level`,`c`.`lft`,`c`.`metadata`,`c`.`metadesc`,`c`.`metakey`,`c`.`modified_time`,`c`.`note`,`c`.`params`,`c`.`parent_id`,`c`.`path`,`c`.`published`,`c`.`rgt`,`c`.`title`,`c`.`modified_user_id`,`c`.`version`, CASE WHEN CHAR_LENGTH(`c`.`alias`) != 0 THEN CONCAT_WS(':', `c`.`id`, `c`.`alias`) ELSE `c`.`id` END as `slug` FROM `tifas_categories` AS `c` WHERE (`c`.`extension` = :extension OR `c`.`extension` = 'system') AND `c`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1) AND `c`.`published` = 1 ORDER BY `c`.`lft`267μs3.91KBParams/libraries/src/Categories/Categories.php:375Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' ORDER BY c.lft asc182μs584B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' AND ((c.lft>=87 AND c.rgt<=88 )) ORDER BY c.lft asc165μs536B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT ev.ev_id FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-10 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-05 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) GROUP BY ev.ev_id ORDER BY ev.created DESC LIMIT 101.03ms520B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:271Copy
  • SELECT rpt.*, ev.*, rr.*, det.*, ev.state as published, ev.created as created , YEAR(rpt.startrepeat) as yup, MONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as mup, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as dup , YEAR(rpt.endrepeat ) as ydn, MONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as mdn, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as ddn , HOUR(rpt.startrepeat) as hup, MINUTE(rpt.startrepeat ) as minup, SECOND(rpt.startrepeat ) as sup , HOUR(rpt.endrepeat ) as hdn, MINUTE(rpt.endrepeat ) as mindn, SECOND(rpt.endrepeat ) as sdn FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-10 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-05 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) AND ev.ev_id IN (0) ORDER BY ev.created DESC , rpt.startrepeat ASC312μs10.33KB/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:3274Copy
  • SELECT `name`,`element` FROM `tifas_extensions` WHERE `type` = 'plugin' AND `folder` = 'finder' AND `enabled` = 1300μs736B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Helper/LanguageHelper.php:134Copy
  • SELECT `title` FROM `tifas_finder_taxonomy` WHERE `parent_id` = 1 AND `state` = 1 AND `access` IN (1)119μs584B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Indexer/Taxonomy.php:314Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_banners` WHERE (`reset` <= :date AND `reset` IS NOT NULL) AND (`checked_out` IS NULL OR `checked_out` = :userId)207μs5.39KBParams/administrator/components/com_banners/src/Helper/BannersHelper.php:69Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`name`,`a`.`clickurl`,`a`.`sticky`,`a`.`cid`,`a`.`description`,`a`.`params`,`a`.`custombannercode`,`a`.`track_impressions`,`cl`.`track_impressions` AS `client_track_impressions` FROM `tifas_banners` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_banner_clients` AS `cl` ON `cl`.`id` = `a`.`cid` WHERE ( ( (`a`.`state` = 1) AND (`a`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_up` <= :nowDate1)) AND (`a`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_down` >= :nowDate2)) AND (`a`.`imptotal` = 0 OR `a`.`impmade` < `a`.`imptotal`) AND `a`.`catid` IN (:preparedArray1) ORDER BY `a`.`sticky` DESC, RAND() LIMIT 1421μs2.28KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banners` SET `impmade` = `impmade` + 1 WHERE `id` IN (:preparedArray1)394μs856BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:315Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banner_tracks` SET `count` = `count` + 1 WHERE `track_type` = 1 AND `banner_id` = :id AND `track_date` = :trackDate310μs832BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:352Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`next_execution` <= :now ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc319μs3.16KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`locked` IS NOT NULL ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc184μs3.18KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SHOW TABLES921μs8.51KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:678Copy