K-Tec

Whats the Maddest scope you've ever seen?

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17 years 7 months ago #50370 by philiplardner
Replied by philiplardner on topic Re: Whats the Maddest scope you've ever seen?
A semi-rigid but deformable substrate (like glass or perspex) still needs its front surface to be optically smooth - at least 1/4wave surface quality - to be of any use. What makes a stretchy thin-film surface attractive is that when you pull a vacuum behind it the front surface irregularities become less of a problem - they get stretched out. Working at IR wavelengths makes the tolerances a little less exacting.

Another method of making ultra-light mirrors was perfected by Peter Chen in the US. Chen polished and figured a negative glass mould and then applied a special gell-coat followed by layers of directional Kevlar. Chen's great contribution was to work out and characterise how the Kevlar and resins behaved while they cured and shrunk to their final shape, and ended up with a perfect figure of revolution. He was able to form many mirrors this way before having to re-polish the negative mould. There is a great photo of his 7 year old daughter holding up a 40" mirror with just one hand (through the central hole!) Chen was developing the technology for possible Moon-based observatories for NASA.

Phil.

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17 years 7 months ago #50372 by eansbro
Replied by eansbro on topic Re: Whats the Maddest scope you've ever seen?
Phil,

Send me your email regarding sending the paper.

Since that paper was published in 2005, I've had good progress using other polyimide materials coated, that demonstrates the primary requirements for precision membrane optics can now be met, of course one assumes one has addressed the controlling technology necessary for figure control within the membrane. This was achieved in 2004 see paper.

Analysis at full aperture of 15 cm (6 inch) membrane mirror has demonstrated a figure error of 4 microns RMS. A central area coated with magnetic material with a magnetic actuator placed behind the membrane makes it possible to achieve optical quality ~1/4 wave flatness. Further tests have revealed that the Hencky curve can be eliminated and an acceptable parabolic curve is achievable according to recent tests. In light of these milestones a larger membrane mirror has been made in the visible region.

A 75 cm (30 in) aperture membrane mirror was made using the above controllable technology, which shows promising results. The autofocus can be controlled by a barometric auto corrector (in process) or a wave front sensor (WFS).

NOTE: Air-side of membrane typically has a superior finish than the Angel casting process for large miorrors. The casting process for a 3m mirror takes 18 months as against 1 month for a membrane mirror. The cost is a 1/100th and the weight is 1/1000th
Early tests of another new polyimide of 4 inch diameter achieved a thickness uniformity ~1/20 wave rms. Extreme temperatures show good tollerance,also no cool down time is neccessary in hot weather.

Results were recently presented to the European ELT Project with positive reaction. In particular for the secondary mirror of the ELT. According to one delegate Alexander Gongorov one of the lead optical engineers, this solves the major problem of making off axis paraboloids for the primary, because the membranes in an array have the added facility to become off axis paraboloids.

Eamonn A

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  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_messages`320μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT m.*,t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON `m`.`id` = `t`.`mesid` WHERE `m`.`id` = 50332208μs2.53KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaMessages.php:216Copy
  • SELECT COUNT(*) FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '50332' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0)193μs536B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:278Copy
  • SELECT a.id FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '50332' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0) ORDER BY a.`time` ASC LIMIT 12, 6171μs552B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.*, t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON m.id = t.mesid WHERE `m`.`id` IN (50370,50372)167μs2.55KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:120Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_thankyou` WHERE `postid` IN (50370,50372)89μs688B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/Thankyou/KunenaMessageThankyouHelper.php:116Copy
  • SELECT u.name, u.username, u.email, u.block AS blocked, u.registerDate, u.lastvisitDate, ku.*, u.id AS userid FROM `tifas_users` AS `u` LEFT JOIN `tifas_kunena_users` AS `ku` ON `u`.`id` = `ku`.`userid` WHERE `u`.`id` IN (78,87)225μs25.02KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:247Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (50370,50372)100μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics` WHERE (`user_id` = '0') AND (`topic_id` IN (50332))92μs1.27KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Topic/User/KunenaTopicUserHelper.php:159Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics`313μs1.42KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT u.name, u.username, u.email, u.block as blocked, u.registerDate, u.lastvisitDate, ku.* FROM `tifas_users` AS `u` LEFT JOIN `tifas_kunena_users` AS `ku` ON `u`.`id` = `ku`.`userid` WHERE `u`.`id` = '319'659μs24.97KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/KunenaUsers.php:575Copy
  • SELECT `code`,`location` FROM `tifas_kunena_smileys`111μs960B/libraries/kunena/src/BBCode/KunenaBBCode.php:1122Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_kunena_topics` SET `hits` = (`hits` + 1) WHERE `id` = '50332'657μs48B/libraries/src/Table/Table.php:1325Copy
  • SELECT `m`.`id`,`m`.`title`,`m`.`module`,`m`.`position`,`m`.`content`,`m`.`showtitle`,`m`.`params`,`mm`.`menuid` FROM `tifas_modules` AS `m` LEFT JOIN `tifas_modules_menu` AS `mm` ON `mm`.`moduleid` = `m`.`id` LEFT JOIN `tifas_extensions` AS `e` ON `e`.`element` = `m`.`module` AND `e`.`client_id` = `m`.`client_id` WHERE ( ( (`m`.`published` = 1 AND `e`.`enabled` = 1 AND `m`.`client_id` = :clientId AND `m`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`m`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_up` <= :publishUp)) AND (`m`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_down` >= :publishDown)) AND (`mm`.`menuid` = :itemId OR `mm`.`menuid` <= 0) ORDER BY `m`.`position`,`m`.`ordering`1.05ms1.86KBParams/libraries/src/Cache/Controller/CallbackController.php:51Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_polls`319μs1.33KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_ranks`98μs1.48KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUser.php:1629Copy
  • SELECT userid, MAX(time) AS time FROM `tifas_session` WHERE `client_id` = 0 AND `userid` > 0 AND `time` > '1744157029' GROUP BY `userid` ORDER BY `time` DESC201μs576B/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:544Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (50370)121μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (50370)98μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (50370) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`278μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (50372)109μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (50372)94μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT DISTINCT a.id, a.title, a.name, a.checked_out, a.checked_out_time, a.note, a.state, a.access, a.created_time, a.created_user_id, a.ordering, a.language, a.fieldparams, a.params, a.type, a.default_value, a.context, a.group_id, a.label, a.description, a.required, a.only_use_in_subform,l.title AS language_title, l.image AS language_image,uc.name AS editor,ag.title AS access_level,ua.name AS author_name,g.title AS group_title, g.access as group_access, g.state AS group_state, g.note as group_note FROM tifas_fields AS a LEFT JOIN `tifas_languages` AS l ON l.lang_code = a.language LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS uc ON uc.id=a.checked_out LEFT JOIN tifas_viewlevels AS ag ON ag.id = a.access LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS ua ON ua.id = a.created_user_id LEFT JOIN tifas_fields_groups AS g ON g.id = a.group_id WHERE ( (`a`.`context` = :context AND `a`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`access` IN (:preparedArray2)) AND `a`.`state` = :state) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`state` = :gstate) AND `a`.`only_use_in_subform` = :only_use_in_subform ORDER BY a.ordering ASC917μs4.03KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_announcement` WHERE `published` = 1 AND (`publish_up` = '1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_up` <= '2025-04-09 00:33:49') AND (`publish_down` ='1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_down` >= '2025-04-09 00:33:49') ORDER BY `id` DESC LIMIT 1137μs1.42KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Announcement/KunenaAnnouncementHelper.php:145Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_jev_users`382μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT `c`.`id`,`c`.`asset_id`,`c`.`access`,`c`.`alias`,`c`.`checked_out`,`c`.`checked_out_time`,`c`.`created_time`,`c`.`created_user_id`,`c`.`description`,`c`.`extension`,`c`.`hits`,`c`.`language`,`c`.`level`,`c`.`lft`,`c`.`metadata`,`c`.`metadesc`,`c`.`metakey`,`c`.`modified_time`,`c`.`note`,`c`.`params`,`c`.`parent_id`,`c`.`path`,`c`.`published`,`c`.`rgt`,`c`.`title`,`c`.`modified_user_id`,`c`.`version`, CASE WHEN CHAR_LENGTH(`c`.`alias`) != 0 THEN CONCAT_WS(':', `c`.`id`, `c`.`alias`) ELSE `c`.`id` END as `slug` FROM `tifas_categories` AS `c` WHERE (`c`.`extension` = :extension OR `c`.`extension` = 'system') AND `c`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1) AND `c`.`published` = 1 ORDER BY `c`.`lft`308μs3.91KBParams/libraries/src/Categories/Categories.php:375Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' ORDER BY c.lft asc454μs584B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' AND ((c.lft>=87 AND c.rgt<=88 )) ORDER BY c.lft asc188μs536B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT ev.ev_id FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-11 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-06 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) GROUP BY ev.ev_id ORDER BY ev.created DESC LIMIT 101ms520B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:271Copy
  • SELECT rpt.*, ev.*, rr.*, det.*, ev.state as published, ev.created as created , YEAR(rpt.startrepeat) as yup, MONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as mup, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as dup , YEAR(rpt.endrepeat ) as ydn, MONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as mdn, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as ddn , HOUR(rpt.startrepeat) as hup, MINUTE(rpt.startrepeat ) as minup, SECOND(rpt.startrepeat ) as sup , HOUR(rpt.endrepeat ) as hdn, MINUTE(rpt.endrepeat ) as mindn, SECOND(rpt.endrepeat ) as sdn FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-11 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-06 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) AND ev.ev_id IN (0) ORDER BY ev.created DESC , rpt.startrepeat ASC426μs10.33KB/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:3274Copy
  • SELECT `name`,`element` FROM `tifas_extensions` WHERE `type` = 'plugin' AND `folder` = 'finder' AND `enabled` = 1346μs736B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Helper/LanguageHelper.php:134Copy
  • SELECT `title` FROM `tifas_finder_taxonomy` WHERE `parent_id` = 1 AND `state` = 1 AND `access` IN (1)154μs584B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Indexer/Taxonomy.php:314Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_banners` WHERE (`reset` <= :date AND `reset` IS NOT NULL) AND (`checked_out` IS NULL OR `checked_out` = :userId)292μs5.39KBParams/administrator/components/com_banners/src/Helper/BannersHelper.php:69Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`name`,`a`.`clickurl`,`a`.`sticky`,`a`.`cid`,`a`.`description`,`a`.`params`,`a`.`custombannercode`,`a`.`track_impressions`,`cl`.`track_impressions` AS `client_track_impressions` FROM `tifas_banners` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_banner_clients` AS `cl` ON `cl`.`id` = `a`.`cid` WHERE ( ( (`a`.`state` = 1) AND (`a`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_up` <= :nowDate1)) AND (`a`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_down` >= :nowDate2)) AND (`a`.`imptotal` = 0 OR `a`.`impmade` < `a`.`imptotal`) AND `a`.`catid` IN (:preparedArray1) ORDER BY `a`.`sticky` DESC, RAND() LIMIT 1463μs2.28KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banners` SET `impmade` = `impmade` + 1 WHERE `id` IN (:preparedArray1)647μs856BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:315Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banner_tracks` SET `count` = `count` + 1 WHERE `track_type` = 1 AND `banner_id` = :id AND `track_date` = :trackDate351μs832BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:352Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`next_execution` <= :now ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc200μs3.16KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`locked` IS NOT NULL ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc179μs3.18KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SHOW TABLES944μs8.51KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:678Copy