Remote observations

Michael - once again, you're two cent is priceless!

I've been juggling the astrophotography deal seriously for the last year or so. I've spent the time diligently researching the topic and boy, what a topic!

The amount of dosh you could spend for DIY is obscene - and that makes the renting option attractive. I took a spin over to slooh - $99 for the year with 15 mins personal time ain't bad. Even if I go ahead and buy whatever I buy, slooh or similar could still be an additional goer.

As far as kit goes, even if you buy a set-up of quality gear, you then have to learn, and learn and learn.... On top of that, even with the gear and a perfect technique, you then need clear skies.... Slooh et el clearly win out on all counts - a fraction of the price, very short learning curve and a greater percentage of clear skies.

But like I said before and you've alluded to it also, where's the fun (pain) in that? It would be like climbing Everest simply by watching the image on the webcam mounted on Sherpa Tensing's head... And you'd be taking the journey with probably a thousand others - it wouldn't give me much personal gratification.

One question I would have though is the owner of the copyright on a picture taken via a timeshare observatory. I think if it was your own personal time that you paid for then the picture is all yours. But if, like Slooh, you're on a group mission, then the pic isn't yours.

As for the location of whatever setup I decide on, I think that pretty much anywhere in Ireland is subject to the same weather at some time or another. But the costs of setting something set up in another country would be way out of even my league! Galway does get better dark skies than Kildare though. I'm really just mulling over them idea of a remote setup such a distance away. I'll certainly start with at-the-eyepiece work and then work my way up to an indoor station. If it then makes sense and I can afford it, perhaps a robotic setup...

Then again, if we all chip in a few quid for Dunsink and set it up for CCD'ing, we could sell the service to private entities and heavily subsidise it for the educational sector. Did I just start a new topic? :shock:

Cheers

Dave

Hi
How would you turn the scope in galway on, how would you do anything that neccesitates a person been on site?
Sorry, but I think this is an over-enthusiastic idea, unless your willing to hire a technician to sit by the scope and make sure all is ok, like plug in a cable if it popped out or comes loose, this cant work.
what happens if a bird flies in and does the business on the corrector plate :lol: trust me, its the stupid things that can all too easily happen.

I like your enthusism, but I think you need to walk before you can run, if you ran a goto scope at home for a few months, the problems would become glaringly apparent.
If you want fabuloius images of deepsky objects, Michael is right on the ball about using the internet telescopes.

You need to decide if you want to collect fantastric images or do you want to do observing with occasional astrophotography.

If you have a suitably equiped mount (i.e. conmputerised) and a PC next to it in a cabinet and using a network link to another PC in your house, you can control the scope remotely. You'd need a program like PC anywhere to do this.

I dont mean to sound like I'm un-encouraging you, but I would just get a scope and use it at home first, make the bigger steps later, one step at a time.

Dave - thanks for the feedback - appreciate it. And I totally agree with your logic!

I posted this topic to see if anyone out there had had a go at a robotic observatory. Doesn't seem like anyone has unfortunately - so no mistakes to learn from... But plenty of ideas about whether or not to do it... Mostly not, so far. But that won't deter me.

I do know at least two people in the US have tried and succeeded. One had the issue of his observatory being nowhere the power grid - solution? soalr panel and rechargable batteries. Not sure how he coped with bird poo though :shock:

As for loose cables etc of course that can happen. Hence the serious design that goes into this - dual systems, fail-safe etc etc. It can all be overcome. I know that at least one manufacturer offers an all-in-one control solution for remote observing and by the time I possibly might get such a project underway, there'll be more. I reckon that judging by the recent light pollution posts, we'll have few dark skies where we live and other than move to the west or even the western islands, remote observing (either pay-per-view or your own kit) will be all the choices left if you want to see the Milky Way again...

For the real stupid things that happen that haven't been planned for, you would of course have to make a trip or get soemone to call out. I'd spend every third weekend or so in Galway so regular maintenenace is not an issue and I'm sure there are folks in Galway who'd help me out if things went awry. That's if it was in Galway of course.

I figured that if it has taken me a year to research astrophotography with little to show for it (a homemade CCD camera and some not-so-good pictures) then if I start researching this now, I'd be ready to build, ooooh, in about five years time! That's if the research showed that:
1. It was feasible
2. It was cost effective

And of course, this would have to balanced against the very cheap pay per view systems.

In the intervening years though, you're dead right. I'll be doing the on-site stuff first followed by remote (me in the dining room, scope in the back garden) bit, then possible something a bit more adventurous. But whilst the skies here are cloudy, I have to keep myself busy somehow

I really do appreciate your input and I hear ya! We may still be discussing the project on this board five years from now - but then again, you might be asking for a yearly subscription to the GRT (Galway Remote Telescope)

Cheers

Dave

What's opening my eyes to all this astrophotography business is the lack of clear skies we have in this country. I love taking images through my scope but at times it gets a little addictive. You could easily spend a few hours taking images and perhaps only look into the scope for a second or two. We really should make the most of the few clear skies we get. Sometimes I find myself having to say to myself "Right, tonight I'll leave the camera indoors and just enjoy the visual experience". Otherwise, if I bring out my camera, I'll see nothing.
Something like webcam astrophotography isn't so bad. It's just a few short video clips and you're done, Leaves plenty time to do visual astronomy. It's just deep sky stuff that takes time.
As for weather in different parts of the country - it may come as a surprise to you Dave but Galway gets about 1.5 times as much rain as Kildare! (Some time ago I looked into the annual rainfall stats for various parts of the country and found that Kildare was one of the driest parts of the country.)
From a financial point of view, a 10" GOTO scope would cost about the same as an 18" dobsonian. I guess it somes down to which you'd prefer.
FWIW, I'm still a little confused with it all and trying to reach a conclusion in my own little head.

Kildare might be drier but being in the East of Kildare, Dublin is a little close for comfort. Galway, when its not raining, has amazingly dark skies (though my trip to New Mexico in two weeks might take me to a new level of darkness ). Certainly darker than here. And I just know that here will become ever more scourged by light pollution... That said, if you do astrophotography right, you can cut through a lot of that pollution. But not the cloud

I think you make a good point about photography - a balance would be ideal between direct observation and shoving a camera on the scope. Alternatively, have two scopes That's what I was thinking of anyway.

You dontt need GOTO to do astrophotography - you *do* need a good mount - most of which are of course GOTO . But a GOTO is not essential. AP have manufacture non GTO mounts in the past. There are certainly good dob mounts specifically designed for astrophotography - so don't rule the Obsession out yet!

This whole astrophotography thing would wreck your head though. I'd most definately recommend 'The new CCD astronomy' by Ron Wodaski (pricey at 60 odd quid) but a goldmine. It has certainly helped me out, I think!

For every answer, there's at least another two questions and decisions...

Cheers

Dave

The comments above cover virtually all the issues regarding remotely operated scopes etc.

However, there is an interesting article by Jeffrey Barham on page 98 of the November 2004 issue of Astronomy which offers some food for thought.

His basic point is simply....

looking at images taken by Hubble or CCD rarely result in the same "gasps of delight that arise as eyes are placed in front of an eyepiece".


Or to put it another way... Watching Ireland play international football on TV is never as thrilling as actually being there.

I wouldnt like to do all my observing "electronically". I healthy combination of eye and electronics is probably best.

Here's an ides..... what if IFAS members got together to fund the building of our own big scope with CCD etc.? We could all make use of it and it could be located where some members would be able to service it. Now who's talking pipe dreams..... just a (wild) thought!

Now I need to rest my brain!!!!

Liam