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M101 - The Pinwheel

  • DaveGrennan
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17 years 8 months ago #48551 by DaveGrennan
Replied by DaveGrennan on topic Re: M101 - The Pinwheel
Brian the reason M101 is so hard to see is it's brightness is spread over such a wide and is amazingly hard to see. Only once have I ever truly seen the magnificence of its spiral arms and that was from deepest darkest west mayo where the locals are friendly and the sheep are scared!

Regards and Clear Skies,

Dave.
J41 - Raheny Observatory.
www.webtreatz.com
Equipment List here

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  • michaeloconnell
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17 years 8 months ago #48554 by michaeloconnell
Replied by michaeloconnell on topic Re: M101 - The Pinwheel

Couple of beginner questions:

Is M101 really the same (apparent) size as the full moon? If so, I assume the reason I can't see it is because it is so dim. Was this photographed using a piggy-backed camera or through a telescope?

I have a neximage digital camera (attached to the eyepiece holder) but all I can see is a small field of view (e.g. I can't image the whole moon, only a quarter at a time). So, if I was to take a picture like the above pinwheel galaxy, would I be better off using the neximage attached to my scope or just a separate camera piggy-backed on the scope?

Thanks,
Brian


Hi Brian,
Good questions.

1) It has an apparent size of 26 arc minutes. The Moon is about 30 arc minutes across. So it is approx 0.86 times the apparent size of the Moon.

2) Yes, it is dim because all the light is spread across a large area. Magnitude is based on condensing the light of an object into a pinpoint.

3) This image was taken with a SBIG ST-8XME CCD Camera attached directly into a 5.5" refractor. Focal length of the refractor is 980mm.

4) The area of sky which a camera can see depends on two things:
(a) physical size of chip
(b) local length of lens in front of it

The bigger the chip, the larger the area of sky that can be captured.
The shorter the focal length, the larger the area of sky the camera can capture.
With all these things, it's getting the balance right for the type of objects you want to image.
Also, different cameras work differently. Some are designed for fast exposure times for capturing detail on the Moon and Planets, whilst others are designed to take very long exposures and capture detail in deep sky objects.

Hope this helps,

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17 years 8 months ago #48751 by BrianOCarroll
Replied by BrianOCarroll on topic Re: M101 - The Pinwheel
Thanks for the replies gents. That has cleared up a few points for me alright. I would have thought myself to be reasonably well up on the sky before now but I had no idea there were galaxies up there (or anything for that matter!) with apparent dimensions comparable to those of the moon :shock: (except the Sun of course!).

Sorry for the delay. I've just checked back to this thread!

Thanks again,
Brian

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  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_topics`386μs1.7KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_topics` WHERE `id` = '48440'129μs13.81KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaTopics.php:223Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_messages`331μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT m.*,t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON `m`.`id` = `t`.`mesid` WHERE `m`.`id` = 48440211μs2.53KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaMessages.php:216Copy
  • SELECT COUNT(*) FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '48440' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0)190μs536B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:278Copy
  • SELECT a.id FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '48440' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0) ORDER BY a.`time` ASC LIMIT 12, 6175μs568B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.*, t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON m.id = t.mesid WHERE `m`.`id` IN (48551,48554,48751)210μs2.56KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:120Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_thankyou` WHERE `postid` IN (48551,48554,48751)114μs688B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/Thankyou/KunenaMessageThankyouHelper.php:116Copy
  • SELECT u.name, u.username, u.email, u.block AS blocked, u.registerDate, u.lastvisitDate, ku.*, u.id AS userid FROM `tifas_users` AS `u` LEFT JOIN `tifas_kunena_users` AS `ku` ON `u`.`id` = `ku`.`userid` WHERE `u`.`id` IN (386,95,1198)284μs25.03KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:247Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (48551,48554,48751)121μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics` WHERE (`user_id` = '0') AND (`topic_id` IN (48440))97μs1.27KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Topic/User/KunenaTopicUserHelper.php:159Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics`307μs1.42KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT `code`,`location` FROM `tifas_kunena_smileys`77μs960B/libraries/kunena/src/BBCode/KunenaBBCode.php:1122Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_kunena_topics` SET `hits` = (`hits` + 1) WHERE `id` = '48440'471μs48B/libraries/src/Table/Table.php:1325Copy
  • SELECT `m`.`id`,`m`.`title`,`m`.`module`,`m`.`position`,`m`.`content`,`m`.`showtitle`,`m`.`params`,`mm`.`menuid` FROM `tifas_modules` AS `m` LEFT JOIN `tifas_modules_menu` AS `mm` ON `mm`.`moduleid` = `m`.`id` LEFT JOIN `tifas_extensions` AS `e` ON `e`.`element` = `m`.`module` AND `e`.`client_id` = `m`.`client_id` WHERE ( ( (`m`.`published` = 1 AND `e`.`enabled` = 1 AND `m`.`client_id` = :clientId AND `m`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`m`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_up` <= :publishUp)) AND (`m`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_down` >= :publishDown)) AND (`mm`.`menuid` = :itemId OR `mm`.`menuid` <= 0) ORDER BY `m`.`position`,`m`.`ordering`726μs1.86KBParams/libraries/src/Cache/Controller/CallbackController.php:51Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_polls`349μs1.33KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_ranks`99μs1.48KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUser.php:1629Copy
  • SELECT userid, MAX(time) AS time FROM `tifas_session` WHERE `client_id` = 0 AND `userid` > 0 AND `time` > '1743994094' GROUP BY `userid` ORDER BY `time` DESC180μs576B/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:544Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (48551)125μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (48551)100μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (48551) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`244μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (48554)116μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (48554)147μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (48554) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`215μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (48751)128μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (48751)105μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT DISTINCT a.id, a.title, a.name, a.checked_out, a.checked_out_time, a.note, a.state, a.access, a.created_time, a.created_user_id, a.ordering, a.language, a.fieldparams, a.params, a.type, a.default_value, a.context, a.group_id, a.label, a.description, a.required, a.only_use_in_subform,l.title AS language_title, l.image AS language_image,uc.name AS editor,ag.title AS access_level,ua.name AS author_name,g.title AS group_title, g.access as group_access, g.state AS group_state, g.note as group_note FROM tifas_fields AS a LEFT JOIN `tifas_languages` AS l ON l.lang_code = a.language LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS uc ON uc.id=a.checked_out LEFT JOIN tifas_viewlevels AS ag ON ag.id = a.access LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS ua ON ua.id = a.created_user_id LEFT JOIN tifas_fields_groups AS g ON g.id = a.group_id WHERE ( (`a`.`context` = :context AND `a`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`access` IN (:preparedArray2)) AND `a`.`state` = :state) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`state` = :gstate) AND `a`.`only_use_in_subform` = :only_use_in_subform ORDER BY a.ordering ASC565μs4.03KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_announcement` WHERE `published` = 1 AND (`publish_up` = '1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_up` <= '2025-04-07 03:18:14') AND (`publish_down` ='1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_down` >= '2025-04-07 03:18:14') ORDER BY `id` DESC LIMIT 1111μs1.42KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Announcement/KunenaAnnouncementHelper.php:145Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_jev_users`349μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT `c`.`id`,`c`.`asset_id`,`c`.`access`,`c`.`alias`,`c`.`checked_out`,`c`.`checked_out_time`,`c`.`created_time`,`c`.`created_user_id`,`c`.`description`,`c`.`extension`,`c`.`hits`,`c`.`language`,`c`.`level`,`c`.`lft`,`c`.`metadata`,`c`.`metadesc`,`c`.`metakey`,`c`.`modified_time`,`c`.`note`,`c`.`params`,`c`.`parent_id`,`c`.`path`,`c`.`published`,`c`.`rgt`,`c`.`title`,`c`.`modified_user_id`,`c`.`version`, CASE WHEN CHAR_LENGTH(`c`.`alias`) != 0 THEN CONCAT_WS(':', `c`.`id`, `c`.`alias`) ELSE `c`.`id` END as `slug` FROM `tifas_categories` AS `c` WHERE (`c`.`extension` = :extension OR `c`.`extension` = 'system') AND `c`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1) AND `c`.`published` = 1 ORDER BY `c`.`lft`302μs3.91KBParams/libraries/src/Categories/Categories.php:375Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' ORDER BY c.lft asc183μs584B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' AND ((c.lft>=87 AND c.rgt<=88 )) ORDER BY c.lft asc178μs536B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT ev.ev_id FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-09 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-04 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) GROUP BY ev.ev_id ORDER BY ev.created DESC LIMIT 10839μs520B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:271Copy
  • SELECT rpt.*, ev.*, rr.*, det.*, ev.state as published, ev.created as created , YEAR(rpt.startrepeat) as yup, MONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as mup, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as dup , YEAR(rpt.endrepeat ) as ydn, MONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as mdn, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as ddn , HOUR(rpt.startrepeat) as hup, MINUTE(rpt.startrepeat ) as minup, SECOND(rpt.startrepeat ) as sup , HOUR(rpt.endrepeat ) as hdn, MINUTE(rpt.endrepeat ) as mindn, SECOND(rpt.endrepeat ) as sdn FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-09 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-04 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) AND ev.ev_id IN (0) ORDER BY ev.created DESC , rpt.startrepeat ASC289μs10.33KB/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:3274Copy
  • SELECT `name`,`element` FROM `tifas_extensions` WHERE `type` = 'plugin' AND `folder` = 'finder' AND `enabled` = 1300μs736B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Helper/LanguageHelper.php:134Copy
  • SELECT `title` FROM `tifas_finder_taxonomy` WHERE `parent_id` = 1 AND `state` = 1 AND `access` IN (1)128μs584B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Indexer/Taxonomy.php:314Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_banners` WHERE (`reset` <= :date AND `reset` IS NOT NULL) AND (`checked_out` IS NULL OR `checked_out` = :userId)179μs5.39KBParams/administrator/components/com_banners/src/Helper/BannersHelper.php:69Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`name`,`a`.`clickurl`,`a`.`sticky`,`a`.`cid`,`a`.`description`,`a`.`params`,`a`.`custombannercode`,`a`.`track_impressions`,`cl`.`track_impressions` AS `client_track_impressions` FROM `tifas_banners` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_banner_clients` AS `cl` ON `cl`.`id` = `a`.`cid` WHERE ( ( (`a`.`state` = 1) AND (`a`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_up` <= :nowDate1)) AND (`a`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_down` >= :nowDate2)) AND (`a`.`imptotal` = 0 OR `a`.`impmade` < `a`.`imptotal`) AND `a`.`catid` IN (:preparedArray1) ORDER BY `a`.`sticky` DESC, RAND() LIMIT 1452μs2.28KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banners` SET `impmade` = `impmade` + 1 WHERE `id` IN (:preparedArray1)732μs856BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:315Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banner_tracks` SET `count` = `count` + 1 WHERE `track_type` = 1 AND `banner_id` = :id AND `track_date` = :trackDate418μs832BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:352Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`next_execution` <= :now ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc193μs3.16KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`locked` IS NOT NULL ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc176μs3.18KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SHOW TABLES937μs8.51KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:678Copy