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Blue Moon??

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15 years 3 months ago #82930 by ayiomamitis
Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re:Blue Moon??
Mark,

Thanks for the neat calculation!

However, I have a problem: this shows that for a paricular month with a blue moon, we will have a repeat in 2.716 years but other blue moons during the intervening period of 2.716 years will also recycle in 2.716 years.

To this end, we can have multiple blue moons during any given time period and whose average will be less than 2.716 years. Put another way, the maximum interval between blue moons is 2.716 years as per your calculations and which I can accept but I think your calculations represents the maximum possible average.

What have I missed?

Anthony.

Anthony Ayiomamitis
Athens, Greece
www.perseus.gr

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15 years 3 months ago #82931 by ayiomamitis
Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re:Blue Moon??
Mark,

Let's take a slightly different approach since the repeatability of 2.716 yrs does not necessarily mean another blue moon.

Since the synodic period is 29.531 days, a blue moon can only occur during months which have 30 or 31 days (obviously). Furthermore, the first full moon must occur early on the first of the month for months which have 30 days and on the first or early on the second of the month for months which have 31 days.

Without doing the math, it would seem very low probabilities are involved given that we only have 12 (or 13) full moons during a calendar year.

Anthony.

Anthony Ayiomamitis
Athens, Greece
www.perseus.gr

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15 years 3 months ago #82932 by dmcdona
Replied by dmcdona on topic Re:Blue Moon??
There were two blue moons in 1999 that were 3 months apart.

2.716 years seems to be a maximum. I guess that this is because our "months" have arbitrary days in them. There would also the factor of your geographical location. The last full moon here in Ireland was in fact the first full moon of January 2010 down-under. So their blue moon appears at the end of this month...

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15 years 3 months ago - 15 years 3 months ago #82933 by ayiomamitis
Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re:Blue Moon??
Dave,

Given how arbitrary the months are, it sounds more like an empirical problem than anything else.

I also like your comment about the geographical bias and this is certainly true!

Anthony.

Anthony Ayiomamitis
Athens, Greece
www.perseus.gr
Last edit: 15 years 3 months ago by ayiomamitis.

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15 years 3 months ago #82934 by mjc
Replied by mjc on topic Re:Blue Moon??
Anthony - Thanks for the feedback on that. Strictly speaking the only interpretation that can be made from my calculation is that it defines the frequency in years in which there are 13 full moons.

For that to happen one and only one 1/12 period (and there lies the conflict) - a nominal month in such a year must have two full moons (as there are only 12 such periods in a year).
So it can only be interpreted as an average due to the irregular size of the calendar months. You are quite correct in spotting that it shouldn't be taken as a hard reality.

Mark

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  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_topics`349μs1.7KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_topics` WHERE `id` = '82852'122μs13.81KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaTopics.php:223Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_messages`319μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT m.*,t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON `m`.`id` = `t`.`mesid` WHERE `m`.`id` = 82852122μs2.53KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/TableKunenaMessages.php:216Copy
  • SELECT COUNT(*) FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '82852' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0)168μs536B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:278Copy
  • SELECT a.id FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '82852' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0) ORDER BY a.`time` ASC LIMIT 12, 6196μs600B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.*, t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON m.id = t.mesid WHERE `m`.`id` IN (82930,82931,82932,82933,82934)192μs2.59KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:120Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_thankyou` WHERE `postid` IN (82930,82931,82932,82933,82934)95μs688B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/Thankyou/KunenaMessageThankyouHelper.php:116Copy
  • SELECT u.name, u.username, u.email, u.block AS blocked, u.registerDate, u.lastvisitDate, ku.*, u.id AS userid FROM `tifas_users` AS `u` LEFT JOIN `tifas_kunena_users` AS `ku` ON `u`.`id` = `ku`.`userid` WHERE `u`.`id` IN (152,338,1582)243μs25.03KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:247Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82930,82931,82932,82933,82934)112μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics` WHERE (`user_id` = '0') AND (`topic_id` IN (82852))95μs1.27KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Topic/User/KunenaTopicUserHelper.php:159Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics`304μs1.42KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT u.name, u.username, u.email, u.block as blocked, u.registerDate, u.lastvisitDate, ku.* FROM `tifas_users` AS `u` LEFT JOIN `tifas_kunena_users` AS `ku` ON `u`.`id` = `ku`.`userid` WHERE `u`.`id` = '461'255μs24.97KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/KunenaUsers.php:575Copy
  • SELECT `code`,`location` FROM `tifas_kunena_smileys`77μs960B/libraries/kunena/src/BBCode/KunenaBBCode.php:1122Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_kunena_topics` SET `hits` = (`hits` + 1) WHERE `id` = '82852'464μs48B/libraries/src/Table/Table.php:1325Copy
  • SELECT `m`.`id`,`m`.`title`,`m`.`module`,`m`.`position`,`m`.`content`,`m`.`showtitle`,`m`.`params`,`mm`.`menuid` FROM `tifas_modules` AS `m` LEFT JOIN `tifas_modules_menu` AS `mm` ON `mm`.`moduleid` = `m`.`id` LEFT JOIN `tifas_extensions` AS `e` ON `e`.`element` = `m`.`module` AND `e`.`client_id` = `m`.`client_id` WHERE ( ( (`m`.`published` = 1 AND `e`.`enabled` = 1 AND `m`.`client_id` = :clientId AND `m`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`m`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_up` <= :publishUp)) AND (`m`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_down` >= :publishDown)) AND (`mm`.`menuid` = :itemId OR `mm`.`menuid` <= 0) ORDER BY `m`.`position`,`m`.`ordering`606μs1.86KBParams/libraries/src/Cache/Controller/CallbackController.php:51Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_polls`296μs1.33KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_ranks`94μs1.48KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUser.php:1629Copy
  • SELECT userid, MAX(time) AS time FROM `tifas_session` WHERE `client_id` = 0 AND `userid` > 0 AND `time` > '1743953379' GROUP BY `userid` ORDER BY `time` DESC173μs576B/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:544Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82930)106μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82930)99μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (82930) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`207μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82931)118μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82931)102μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (82931) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`208μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82932)102μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82932)93μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (82932) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`217μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82933)266μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82933)94μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (82933) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`203μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82934)150μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (82934)126μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT DISTINCT a.id, a.title, a.name, a.checked_out, a.checked_out_time, a.note, a.state, a.access, a.created_time, a.created_user_id, a.ordering, a.language, a.fieldparams, a.params, a.type, a.default_value, a.context, a.group_id, a.label, a.description, a.required, a.only_use_in_subform,l.title AS language_title, l.image AS language_image,uc.name AS editor,ag.title AS access_level,ua.name AS author_name,g.title AS group_title, g.access as group_access, g.state AS group_state, g.note as group_note FROM tifas_fields AS a LEFT JOIN `tifas_languages` AS l ON l.lang_code = a.language LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS uc ON uc.id=a.checked_out LEFT JOIN tifas_viewlevels AS ag ON ag.id = a.access LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS ua ON ua.id = a.created_user_id LEFT JOIN tifas_fields_groups AS g ON g.id = a.group_id WHERE ( (`a`.`context` = :context AND `a`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`access` IN (:preparedArray2)) AND `a`.`state` = :state) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`state` = :gstate) AND `a`.`only_use_in_subform` = :only_use_in_subform ORDER BY a.ordering ASC544μs4.03KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_announcement` WHERE `published` = 1 AND (`publish_up` = '1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_up` <= '2025-04-06 15:59:39') AND (`publish_down` ='1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_down` >= '2025-04-06 15:59:39') ORDER BY `id` DESC LIMIT 1107μs1.42KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Announcement/KunenaAnnouncementHelper.php:145Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_jev_users`543μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT `c`.`id`,`c`.`asset_id`,`c`.`access`,`c`.`alias`,`c`.`checked_out`,`c`.`checked_out_time`,`c`.`created_time`,`c`.`created_user_id`,`c`.`description`,`c`.`extension`,`c`.`hits`,`c`.`language`,`c`.`level`,`c`.`lft`,`c`.`metadata`,`c`.`metadesc`,`c`.`metakey`,`c`.`modified_time`,`c`.`note`,`c`.`params`,`c`.`parent_id`,`c`.`path`,`c`.`published`,`c`.`rgt`,`c`.`title`,`c`.`modified_user_id`,`c`.`version`, CASE WHEN CHAR_LENGTH(`c`.`alias`) != 0 THEN CONCAT_WS(':', `c`.`id`, `c`.`alias`) ELSE `c`.`id` END as `slug` FROM `tifas_categories` AS `c` WHERE (`c`.`extension` = :extension OR `c`.`extension` = 'system') AND `c`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1) AND `c`.`published` = 1 ORDER BY `c`.`lft`244μs3.91KBParams/libraries/src/Categories/Categories.php:375Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' ORDER BY c.lft asc163μs584B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' AND ((c.lft>=87 AND c.rgt<=88 )) ORDER BY c.lft asc166μs536B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT ev.ev_id FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-08 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-03 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) GROUP BY ev.ev_id ORDER BY ev.created DESC LIMIT 10752μs520B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:271Copy
  • SELECT rpt.*, ev.*, rr.*, det.*, ev.state as published, ev.created as created , YEAR(rpt.startrepeat) as yup, MONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as mup, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as dup , YEAR(rpt.endrepeat ) as ydn, MONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as mdn, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as ddn , HOUR(rpt.startrepeat) as hup, MINUTE(rpt.startrepeat ) as minup, SECOND(rpt.startrepeat ) as sup , HOUR(rpt.endrepeat ) as hdn, MINUTE(rpt.endrepeat ) as mindn, SECOND(rpt.endrepeat ) as sdn FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-08 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-03 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) AND ev.ev_id IN (0) ORDER BY ev.created DESC , rpt.startrepeat ASC339μs10.33KB/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:3274Copy
  • SELECT `name`,`element` FROM `tifas_extensions` WHERE `type` = 'plugin' AND `folder` = 'finder' AND `enabled` = 1265μs736B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Helper/LanguageHelper.php:134Copy
  • SELECT `title` FROM `tifas_finder_taxonomy` WHERE `parent_id` = 1 AND `state` = 1 AND `access` IN (1)134μs584B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Indexer/Taxonomy.php:314Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_banners` WHERE (`reset` <= :date AND `reset` IS NOT NULL) AND (`checked_out` IS NULL OR `checked_out` = :userId)199μs5.39KBParams/administrator/components/com_banners/src/Helper/BannersHelper.php:69Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`name`,`a`.`clickurl`,`a`.`sticky`,`a`.`cid`,`a`.`description`,`a`.`params`,`a`.`custombannercode`,`a`.`track_impressions`,`cl`.`track_impressions` AS `client_track_impressions` FROM `tifas_banners` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_banner_clients` AS `cl` ON `cl`.`id` = `a`.`cid` WHERE ( ( (`a`.`state` = 1) AND (`a`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_up` <= :nowDate1)) AND (`a`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_down` >= :nowDate2)) AND (`a`.`imptotal` = 0 OR `a`.`impmade` < `a`.`imptotal`) AND `a`.`catid` IN (:preparedArray1) ORDER BY `a`.`sticky` DESC, RAND() LIMIT 1437μs2.28KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banners` SET `impmade` = `impmade` + 1 WHERE `id` IN (:preparedArray1)288μs856BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:315Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banner_tracks` SET `count` = `count` + 1 WHERE `track_type` = 1 AND `banner_id` = :id AND `track_date` = :trackDate634μs832BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:352Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`next_execution` <= :now ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc189μs3.16KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`locked` IS NOT NULL ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc173μs3.18KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SHOW TABLES713μs8.51KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:678Copy