Politics

Apology accepted Seanie. And I feel I should apologise too as the last sentence in my reply to you was out of order.

Gordon

Not at all Gordon, I kind of instigated that response from you (quite inadvertently) anyway!

We won't fall out over this just yet!




Seanie.

The best method of defence is offence. Which is why IFAS should have a press officer to let our national broadcaster and press know that there is much more to astronomy in Ireland than AI. A newspaper reporter I know expressed surprise that there were loads of local groups throughout the country which had nothing to do with AI at all. He had never heard of the annual Whirlpool event for example.

I think this is the best thing that has been said so far on this thread.

The IFAS constitution says that the purpose of IFAS is to promote the interests and development of amateur astronomical societies in Ireland. It is surely very much in the interest of those societies to have some sort of national press officer promoting IFAS and it's constituent clubs. Or are IFAS clubs satisfied with the current situation where pretty much everyone in Ireland thinks it's either AI or nothing?

One of the reasons why AI is so prominent is because DM is very very good at promotion, and at talking to the press. I think we have established that he isn't interested in using those promotional skills to help IFAS member clubs (unless they become AI affiliates), so I think we need to look elsewhere.

I think that the best way of getting the message out to the public about AI / A&S Ltd is simply by having a second spokesperson for amateur astronomy in Ireland who is, and who comes across as, an amateur.

IFAS should have a national event annually, under its own name.

Now that might just be pushing it...

Bart,
As to the comments about anonimity of board users, I would have assumed as you are the webmaster you would have access to the names of board users even if they use a different name to post. If you dont have this information, may I suggest you insist on it as you are the person ultimately liable for what appears on this board.

No, I don't! Short of getting everyone to post me a photocopy of their passport before activating thier accounts there is no way to reliably get user details so anyone who wants to hide can hide. I don't believe in un-policable laws so I don't bother.

What should be noted however is that every single post made here has its IP address and time logged so if the shit hits the fan the users ISP can tell me who they are given that information.

I have a lot of experience on bulletin boards and I have gotten user information before based on IP address from the ISP in cases of extreme illegality (child porn once). No one is truely anonymous online!

At the end of the day, we are all adults and there has never been a situation on this site that has not been amicably resolved and I don't see that changing.

Bart B.,
IFAS Webmaster.

One of the reasons why AI is so prominent is because DM is very very good at promotion, and at talking to the press. I think we have established that he isn't interested in using those promotional skills to help IFAS member clubs (unless they become AI affiliates), so I think we need to look elsewhere.

I'm going into overkill mode again...

DM is NOT good at talking to the press. I believe he is good at conning them into believing that he is the only worthwhile astronomical source in Ireland, and that his club is the national astronomical club of Ireland.

My backup to this remark is that Midlands Radio 3 down here in Tullamore does not want to even talk to TAS. I have tried relentlessly time and time again to give them articles of interest about upcoming events, asked for interviews with any of the committee members about things from the Trasit of Venus to aurorae, from the ISS to our own COSMOS star party. 3 years I have been trying, and other members too. My calls are never returned, my emails snubbed, and one letter hasn't had a reply.

Then, this year, when I asked one of the morning show producers as to why, that person said that they have an agreement with Astronomy Ireland to get all their information from there. I said that AI has got nothing to so with TAS, and that TAS has been in existence longer than AI, and some info I gave had to do with TAS only - they gently fobbed me off.

The same story a long time ago when I went into them with a portfolio about the pending Shoemaker-Levy 9 Jovian impacts. The head of current affairs at the time didn't want to know because they had an agreement with AI. He was told that AI was the national Irish astronomy club, and that there was no one else.

DM has been able to simply get things like this to work in his favour. More recently, I have been able to get all the Offaly and almost all the Westmeath papers in my favour for TAS. One editor was even bold enough to ask me how DM could be so flamboyant about trivial things like the ISS blazing across the sky - he knew it was just a bright dot going from east to west, but DM took the mick about it!

And other events in the Irish media has kind of led to suggest that others are getting a bit tired of his PR stunts, such as Leo Enright talking about space and astronomy related snippets and soundbites on the news - where was DM?

Granted, some of DM's PR appearances are good and worthwhile, and fair dues to the man for getting there first in most cases - thats how the race is run. But, I for one don't think he is very very good at promotion. Forgive me for saying so, but he's like a flamboyant salesman trying to sell you something you are not sure you need!

Its the only was I can describe it!



Seanie.

My backup to this remark is that Midlands Radio 3 down here in Tullamore does not want to even talk to TAS. I have tried relentlessly time and time again to give them articles of interest about upcoming events, asked for interviews with any of the committee members about things from the Trasit of Venus to aurorae, from the ISS to our own COSMOS star party. 3 years I have been trying, and other members too. My calls are never returned, my emails snubbed, and one letter hasn't had a reply.

Then, this year, when I asked one of the morning show producers as to why, that person said that they have an agreement with Astronomy Ireland to get all their information from there. I said that AI has got nothing to so with TAS, and that TAS has been in existence longer than AI, and some info I gave had to do with TAS only - they gently fobbed me off.

Seanie, can you send me contact details for the station manager/producer/host of the main morning talk program?

Might as well pester them about my upcoming light pollution talk to TAS and see if we can run a piece on it

Cheers,
~Al

One of the reasons why AI is so prominent is because DM is very very good at promotion, and at talking to the press.

DM is NOT good at talking to the press. I believe he is good at conning them into believing that he is the only worthwhile astronomical source in Ireland

... and that is the kind of thing that the press likes. They don't want to have to actually do some work and weigh up two different sources of information - it is up to us to make them!

Then, this year, when I asked one of the morning show producers as to why, that person said that they have an agreement with Astronomy Ireland to get all their information from there.

I think we need to ask ourselves why that is. The bottom line is that AI is doing something that the media like/need, and that is what IFAS needs to be doing in order to get it's message across.

One editor was even bold enough to ask me how DM could be so flamboyant about trivial things like the ISS blazing across the sky - he knew it was just a bright dot going from east to west, but DM took the mick about it!

And there are (unfortunately) sections of the media that love that kind of flamboyance.

I stand by my statement that DM is very very good with the media in Ireland. We might not like his "flamboyant" style (and I'm not suggesting that it is the only style that can succeed), but you gotta hand it to his success. Anyone who has convinced the media that they are the only decent source of information on a particular topic is, in my book, very successful at dealing with the media. Is it a failing of AI and DM that the media believe it to be so? No - it is a failing of the media, and of IFAS, that those journalists don't know otherwise. I mean, I've been interested in astronomy since childhood, I left AI in 1999, and it wasn't until December 2003 that I found IFAS! What chance does a media hack have?

Amongst the useful (as opposed to flamboyant) things that DM does that the media likes are
* Give them his mobile phone number
* Issue timely ready-to-print press releases
* Make himself available to appear on camera and/or on radio
* He knows his subject
* Enthusiasm
There are a lot of things besides "flamboyancy" that could make a successful PR policy.

And other events in the Irish media has kind of led to suggest that others are getting a bit tired of his PR stunts, such as Leo Enright talking about space and astronomy related snippets and soundbites on the news - where was DM?

So the time is ripe for "competition"? Let's get in there...

Granted, some of DM's PR appearances are good and worthwhile, and fair dues to the man for getting there first in most cases - thats how the race is run. But, I for one don't think he is very very good at promotion. Forgive me for saying so, but he's like a flamboyant salesman trying to sell you something you are not sure you need!

And the "flamboyant salesman" is also a way of (successfully) running the race...

As Brian pointed out, the media don't even seem to be aware of the existance of IFAS and non-AI-affiliated clubs in Ireland. Whose fault is that? DM's? I don't think so...

I still think that a good media person would do wonders for IFAS, for it's constituent clubs, and for astronomy in Ireland. I can't imagine that any agreement between AI and media outlets is permanent, and I believe that the media could be very interested in another source of information when any agreement they have with AI expires, especially if that source was less "commercial". Indeed, such agreements sound to me like very bad journalistic practice - I'm finding it difficult to believe that a reputable journalist would limit themself to only one source of information on any particular subject.