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Undersampling - Oversampling

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15 years 7 months ago #80663 by ayiomamitis
Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re:Undersampling - Oversampling
Mark,

At the risk of stating the obvious, the ultimate judge is your experience under the night sky. To this end, do some testing with the scope pointed at zenith (ex. Cygnus) and go from there.

Personally I have been delighted with the results produced by my Mewlon 210 at 0.58"/pixel and I have no doubts I will be equally pleased when pursuing an even more aggressive image scale at 3710 mm focal length.

One comment which may have been overlooked when advising Brendan is the issue of guiding. As we increase our focal length, the choice of available guide stars diminishes "exponentially" and which may impact his proposed work. There are times with my Mewlon 210 (2415 mm focal length) I do not have a single guide star and irrespective of magnitude. Other times I have guided on mag 14 stars and at 280 ADU.

Anthony.
Anthony Ayiomamitis
Athens, Greece
www.perseus.gr

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15 years 7 months ago #80664 by dmcdona
Replied by dmcdona on topic Re:Undersampling - Oversampling
ayiomamitis wrote:

Other times I have guided on mag 14 stars and at 280 ADU.

:bigshock:

You're mad! Or a genius ;)

I agree with you Anthony that local empirical data is de facto absolute. Under your sky conitions, with your optics, imager and mount, if it works, then that;s what works for you. And boy, are you lucky! Well, you and I know that it takes a long time and a lot of learning to get lucky ;) Clearly your images are what they are - outstanding. So 0.58"/pixel and falling - it certainly works for you! Good points on focal length. One to be wary of. But matching your imager/OTA consists of both pixel size and field of view - and its usually a trade-off or compromise...

Mark - I think Stan's paper talks about the diagonal. I've not read it in detail myself yet but I'm sure it mentions it somewhere.

Dave

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  • SELECT COUNT(*) FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '80540' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0)216μs536B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:278Copy
  • SELECT a.id FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `a` WHERE `thread` = '80540' AND `a`.`hold` IN (0) ORDER BY a.`time` ASC LIMIT 24, 6216μs552B/libraries/kunena/src/Database/Object/KunenaFinder.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.*, t.message FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages_text` AS `t` ON m.id = t.mesid WHERE `m`.`id` IN (80663,80664)206μs2.55KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:120Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_thankyou` WHERE `postid` IN (80663,80664)109μs688B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/Thankyou/KunenaMessageThankyouHelper.php:116Copy
  • SELECT u.name, u.username, u.email, u.block AS blocked, u.registerDate, u.lastvisitDate, ku.*, u.id AS userid FROM `tifas_users` AS `u` LEFT JOIN `tifas_kunena_users` AS `ku` ON `u`.`id` = `ku`.`userid` WHERE `u`.`id` IN (152,338)258μs25.02KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:247Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (80663,80664)118μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics` WHERE (`user_id` = '0') AND (`topic_id` IN (80540))93μs1.27KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Topic/User/KunenaTopicUserHelper.php:159Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_user_topics`300μs1.42KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT u.name, u.username, u.email, u.block as blocked, u.registerDate, u.lastvisitDate, ku.* FROM `tifas_users` AS `u` LEFT JOIN `tifas_kunena_users` AS `ku` ON `u`.`id` = `ku`.`userid` WHERE `u`.`id` = '1666'251μs24.97KB/libraries/kunena/src/Tables/KunenaUsers.php:575Copy
  • SELECT `code`,`location` FROM `tifas_kunena_smileys`75μs960B/libraries/kunena/src/BBCode/KunenaBBCode.php:1122Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_kunena_topics` SET `hits` = (`hits` + 1) WHERE `id` = '80540'337μs48B/libraries/src/Table/Table.php:1325Copy
  • SELECT `m`.`id`,`m`.`title`,`m`.`module`,`m`.`position`,`m`.`content`,`m`.`showtitle`,`m`.`params`,`mm`.`menuid` FROM `tifas_modules` AS `m` LEFT JOIN `tifas_modules_menu` AS `mm` ON `mm`.`moduleid` = `m`.`id` LEFT JOIN `tifas_extensions` AS `e` ON `e`.`element` = `m`.`module` AND `e`.`client_id` = `m`.`client_id` WHERE ( ( (`m`.`published` = 1 AND `e`.`enabled` = 1 AND `m`.`client_id` = :clientId AND `m`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`m`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_up` <= :publishUp)) AND (`m`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `m`.`publish_down` >= :publishDown)) AND (`mm`.`menuid` = :itemId OR `mm`.`menuid` <= 0) ORDER BY `m`.`position`,`m`.`ordering`581μs1.86KBParams/libraries/src/Cache/Controller/CallbackController.php:51Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_kunena_polls`367μs1.33KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_ranks`98μs1.48KB/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUser.php:1629Copy
  • SELECT userid, MAX(time) AS time FROM `tifas_session` WHERE `client_id` = 0 AND `userid` > 0 AND `time` > '1744321803' GROUP BY `userid` ORDER BY `time` DESC151μs576B/libraries/kunena/src/User/KunenaUserHelper.php:544Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (80663)131μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (80663)106μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT m.id, mm.hold, m.catid AS category_id, m.thread AS topic_id, SUM(mm.time<m.time) AS before_count, SUM(mm.time>m.time) AS after_count FROM `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `m` INNER JOIN `tifas_kunena_messages` AS `mm` ON `m`.`thread` = `mm`.`thread` WHERE `m`.`id` IN (80663) GROUP BY `m`.`id`,`mm`.`hold`271μs832B/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Message/KunenaMessageHelper.php:539Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (80664)149μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_attachments` WHERE `mesid` IN (80664)106μs1.45KB/libraries/kunena/src/Attachment/KunenaAttachmentHelper.php:234Copy
  • SELECT DISTINCT a.id, a.title, a.name, a.checked_out, a.checked_out_time, a.note, a.state, a.access, a.created_time, a.created_user_id, a.ordering, a.language, a.fieldparams, a.params, a.type, a.default_value, a.context, a.group_id, a.label, a.description, a.required, a.only_use_in_subform,l.title AS language_title, l.image AS language_image,uc.name AS editor,ag.title AS access_level,ua.name AS author_name,g.title AS group_title, g.access as group_access, g.state AS group_state, g.note as group_note FROM tifas_fields AS a LEFT JOIN `tifas_languages` AS l ON l.lang_code = a.language LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS uc ON uc.id=a.checked_out LEFT JOIN tifas_viewlevels AS ag ON ag.id = a.access LEFT JOIN tifas_users AS ua ON ua.id = a.created_user_id LEFT JOIN tifas_fields_groups AS g ON g.id = a.group_id WHERE ( (`a`.`context` = :context AND `a`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1)) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`access` IN (:preparedArray2)) AND `a`.`state` = :state) AND (`a`.`group_id` = 0 OR `g`.`state` = :gstate) AND `a`.`only_use_in_subform` = :only_use_in_subform ORDER BY a.ordering ASC549μs4.03KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_kunena_announcement` WHERE `published` = 1 AND (`publish_up` = '1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_up` <= '2025-04-10 22:20:03') AND (`publish_down` ='1000-01-01 00:00:00' OR `publish_down` >= '2025-04-10 22:20:03') ORDER BY `id` DESC LIMIT 197μs1.42KB/libraries/kunena/src/Forum/Announcement/KunenaAnnouncementHelper.php:145Copy
  • SHOW FULL COLUMNS FROM `tifas_jev_users`332μs1.58KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:625Copy
  • SELECT `c`.`id`,`c`.`asset_id`,`c`.`access`,`c`.`alias`,`c`.`checked_out`,`c`.`checked_out_time`,`c`.`created_time`,`c`.`created_user_id`,`c`.`description`,`c`.`extension`,`c`.`hits`,`c`.`language`,`c`.`level`,`c`.`lft`,`c`.`metadata`,`c`.`metadesc`,`c`.`metakey`,`c`.`modified_time`,`c`.`note`,`c`.`params`,`c`.`parent_id`,`c`.`path`,`c`.`published`,`c`.`rgt`,`c`.`title`,`c`.`modified_user_id`,`c`.`version`, CASE WHEN CHAR_LENGTH(`c`.`alias`) != 0 THEN CONCAT_WS(':', `c`.`id`, `c`.`alias`) ELSE `c`.`id` END as `slug` FROM `tifas_categories` AS `c` WHERE (`c`.`extension` = :extension OR `c`.`extension` = 'system') AND `c`.`access` IN (:preparedArray1) AND `c`.`published` = 1 ORDER BY `c`.`lft`272μs3.91KBParams/libraries/src/Categories/Categories.php:375Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' ORDER BY c.lft asc163μs584B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT c.id FROM tifas_categories AS c WHERE c.access IN (1) AND c.published = 1 AND c.language in ('en-GB','*') AND c.extension = 'com_jevents' AND ((c.lft>=87 AND c.rgt<=88 )) ORDER BY c.lft asc175μs536B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:547Copy
  • SELECT ev.ev_id FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-12 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-07 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) GROUP BY ev.ev_id ORDER BY ev.created DESC LIMIT 10786μs520B/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:271Copy
  • SELECT rpt.*, ev.*, rr.*, det.*, ev.state as published, ev.created as created , YEAR(rpt.startrepeat) as yup, MONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as mup, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.startrepeat ) as dup , YEAR(rpt.endrepeat ) as ydn, MONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as mdn, DAYOFMONTH(rpt.endrepeat ) as ddn , HOUR(rpt.startrepeat) as hup, MINUTE(rpt.startrepeat ) as minup, SECOND(rpt.startrepeat ) as sup , HOUR(rpt.endrepeat ) as hdn, MINUTE(rpt.endrepeat ) as mindn, SECOND(rpt.endrepeat ) as sdn FROM tifas_jevents_repetition as rpt INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevent as ev ON rpt.eventid = ev.ev_id INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_icsfile as icsf ON icsf.ics_id=ev.icsid INNER JOIN tifas_jevents_vevdetail as det ON det.evdet_id = rpt.eventdetail_id LEFT JOIN tifas_jevents_rrule as rr ON rr.eventid = rpt.eventid WHERE ev.catid IN(-1,68) AND ev.created >= '2024-10-12 00:00:00' AND ev.created <= '2025-10-07 23:59:59' AND ev.state=1 AND ev.access IN (1) AND icsf.state=1 AND icsf.access IN (1) AND ev.ev_id IN (0) ORDER BY ev.created DESC , rpt.startrepeat ASC332μs10.33KB/components/com_jevents/libraries/dbmodel.php:3274Copy
  • SELECT `name`,`element` FROM `tifas_extensions` WHERE `type` = 'plugin' AND `folder` = 'finder' AND `enabled` = 1256μs736B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Helper/LanguageHelper.php:134Copy
  • SELECT `title` FROM `tifas_finder_taxonomy` WHERE `parent_id` = 1 AND `state` = 1 AND `access` IN (1)131μs584B/administrator/components/com_finder/src/Indexer/Taxonomy.php:314Copy
  • SELECT * FROM `tifas_banners` WHERE (`reset` <= :date AND `reset` IS NOT NULL) AND (`checked_out` IS NULL OR `checked_out` = :userId)178μs5.39KBParams/administrator/components/com_banners/src/Helper/BannersHelper.php:69Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`name`,`a`.`clickurl`,`a`.`sticky`,`a`.`cid`,`a`.`description`,`a`.`params`,`a`.`custombannercode`,`a`.`track_impressions`,`cl`.`track_impressions` AS `client_track_impressions` FROM `tifas_banners` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_banner_clients` AS `cl` ON `cl`.`id` = `a`.`cid` WHERE ( ( (`a`.`state` = 1) AND (`a`.`publish_up` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_up` <= :nowDate1)) AND (`a`.`publish_down` IS NULL OR `a`.`publish_down` >= :nowDate2)) AND (`a`.`imptotal` = 0 OR `a`.`impmade` < `a`.`imptotal`) AND `a`.`catid` IN (:preparedArray1) ORDER BY `a`.`sticky` DESC, RAND() LIMIT 1438μs2.28KBParams/libraries/src/MVC/Model/BaseDatabaseModel.php:166Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banners` SET `impmade` = `impmade` + 1 WHERE `id` IN (:preparedArray1)434μs856BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:315Copy
  • UPDATE `tifas_banner_tracks` SET `count` = `count` + 1 WHERE `track_type` = 1 AND `banner_id` = :id AND `track_date` = :trackDate353μs832BParams/components/com_banners/src/Model/BannersModel.php:352Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`next_execution` <= :now ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc197μs3.16KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SELECT `a`.`id`,`a`.`asset_id`,`a`.`title`,`a`.`type`,`a`.`execution_rules`,`a`.`state`,`a`.`last_exit_code`,`a`.`locked`,`a`.`last_execution`,`a`.`next_execution`,`a`.`times_executed`,`a`.`times_failed`,`a`.`priority`,`a`.`ordering`,`a`.`note`,`a`.`checked_out`,`a`.`checked_out_time`,`uc`.`name` AS `editor` FROM `tifas_scheduler_tasks` AS `a` LEFT JOIN `tifas_users` AS `uc` ON `uc`.`id` = `a`.`checked_out` WHERE `a`.`state` = :state AND `a`.`locked` IS NOT NULL ORDER BY `a`.`title` asc172μs3.18KBParams/administrator/components/com_scheduler/src/Model/TasksModel.php:391Copy
  • SHOW TABLES842μs8.51KB/libraries/vendor/joomla/database/src/Mysqli/MysqliDriver.php:678Copy