RTE & the Astronomy voice of Ireland

I disagree with Seanie to a certain extent about the local media. DM is right to get as much coverage for himself as possible. The fault here lies with Midlands Radio 3.

True, you're quite right Shane, what I said was a bit at fault...


... but then DM has diminished TAS's chances (and even other astro clubs) of getting any of the limelight, by saying A&S/AI caters for the beginner (with a wad of cash), and that allllll the other clubs almost make you think you need a degree to join and benefit from them.

I just can't get over the fact that Astronomy Ireland proclaims itself to be the National Astronomical Club of Ireland, but hardly gets out of The Pale to cater for the rest of them. TAS has had people join from AI, who were sick of paying sunscriptions for a club they could spend 2 hours to try and get to on some weeknight (in Dublin), and all they got was a magazine which, at the time, was a month behind Astronomy Now (I'm only passing this remark on, its not made by me - go easy on the bashing!).

Radio 3 gets no benefit whatsoever of banishing TAS (yes, I think after all my trials and mis-tribulations, this is a good word to use) from the airwaves.We are local, the locality mostly know us.

I'll tell you how well known we are.

The current issue of Réalta has sold out TWICE in 2 shops I asked for it to be distributed in Tullamore. No advertising, no correspondence - just dropped a load of them into each shop. The local Tribune loves it, thinks its the dogs ballerics. And another Offaly paper even said why don't WE go into competition against Astronomy Ireland, who don't seem to be doing much to benefit the area for astronomy!

Sounds like a great plug for TAS, and sounds like a not so great plug for AI's abilities to cater for the population (just as long as IMO, the magazine subscriptions keep coming in).

But Radio 3 still don't acknowledge us, the local astronomy club that can and does cater for the locality.

Seanie.

Shane,

I must disagree with you on several points you raised. Have you asked the 7000 people who did not renew their sub why they did this? To say 'why have 7,000 people decided that they no longer wish to be associated with your organisation?' is just plain silly. There are umpteen reasons why someone would not renew. Not wanting to be associated with AI is just one possibility. The fact remains that 3000 people do choose to pay their sub. They do so IMHO because of an excellent magazine and an ethos which makes astronomy exciting/inviting rather than a dreary subject reserved for the experts.

I can only talk from my experience of AI, but I *never* found it hard to get involved. In fact I always found the opposite to be true. As I mentioned before I went from my first AI meeting to treasurer and then vice-chairman in a really short space of time. Again I wonder why people get so hung up about the internal workings of AI but fail to get out there and help get people interested in the hobby.

Seanie: With all due respect.

He even had the cheek to try and set up classes in Astronomy down here in Tullamore and Mullingar last year - I believe only because there are 2 local amateur groups already in existence (again, I think one is called TAS...) - he wanted to oust us! Why else would he try to do it?

I just can't get over the fact that Astronomy Ireland proclaims itself to be the National Astronomical Club of Ireland, but hardly gets out of The Pale to cater for the rest of them.

How on earth can you reconcile both of those quotes, on one hand when AI does something in your locality its because they want to oust you. When they dont you still complain. You cant have it both ways Seanie. You see It seems to me that that sums up a lot of whats been posted. The enemy is AI, it doesnt matter what they do or dont do because they are gonna be villified anyway. I'm not claiming for one minute AI is perfect but it just seems that some people have decided that AI is a threat and should be slammed at every available opportunity. IMHO people would be doing astronomy a bigger favour by getting their own house (club) in order before they spend so much energy worrying about the internal workings of AI.

Dave.

On one hand when AI does something in your locality its because they want to oust you. When they dont you still complain. You cant have it both ways Seanie. You see It seems to me that that sums up a lot of whats been posted. The enemy is AI, it doesnt matter what they do or dont do because they are gonna be villified anyway...
...it just seems that some people have decided that AI is a threat and should be slammed at every available opportunity.

My comments must be taken with respect to my point of view, and also on the view of some of the longer standing members of the club. Anyone, from any walk of life and background, with no need for a white coat or slip of paper, is free to join without paying a penny for lectures etc. We have always been an enthusiasts club.

Recently, one was set up in Birr (Dave Geary can fill us in on that one - I've never atually met any of the Birr members, but would love to). TAS has never talked to them, nor them to us. We all simply mind each others business. Sure, we will cross paths, perhaps when one of the Birr group come over to Tullamore and give us a talk, or vice versa.
But not once has TAS tried to go over there and take things over, or even to butt in and help set up a Birr Astro Club. If help is wanted from us, we will be asked, and as such, there is no need for us to interfere with their turf.

AI on the other hand, wanted to come down here to Tullamore - not one of the bigger/alternative midland towns like Portlaoise, Athlone, Carlow, Longford, and try to set up a club there. They advertised that they were looking for poeple in the Tullamore and Mullingar areas to enroll into astronomy classes.
TAS does this almost 3 times a month already. Yet AI deemed it worthy to snub us, and try and form their own astronomy arm in Tullamore.

I have sent emails to Astronomy & Space months ahead of last years COSMOS event, got no replies, and no mention of the programme etc. in the magazine. Now THATS clannish. And in my opinion, a very unjust way of trying to promote astronomy in Ireland.

If DM actually emailed me to ask if I put in a word about their Astro Expo into Réalta, you know what, I would. As editor of our club magazine, I'd have no problem mentioning the dates, venue, one or 2 speakers, the admission etc etc. Of course, I'm not going to write an article about it - that would cost us money. But, DM advertises about If your club or area is having an event... but never acknowledged my emails.

This is one of a few reasons why I bash AI. I have others. And perhaps, this is DM's way of letting me, and some others here, seem like I am giving astronomy a bad name (albeit it a small one) inclusive of IFAS, and thus letting AI get the upper hand - hence my lengthy posts in this thread and on the politics forumn - I kind of want to be understood, not misconstrued, by my reaons why I bash AI.

I can't speak for TAS explicitly, but as a member of 15 years DM has never been in touch with us in any kind, and we therefore have never been in touch with him. If DM/AI/A&S has any reasons to bash TAS, I'd love to hear th3em - and would do so with an open head, and probably a heavy heart. But thats a different thread for another day.

Seanie.

PS. Dave Grennan, I would also like to buy you a pint sometime too, as I think you've done alot of typing on one subject that may not be the perfect one for an almost newbie to IFAS to start on!

Dave (Grennan)

The fact remains that 3000 people do choose to pay their sub. They do so IMHO because of an excellent magazine and an ethos which makes astronomy exciting/inviting rather than a dreary subject reserved for the experts

Sorry Dave - I have to disagree strongly with you there. The magazine works out at about three quid (by subscriotion - I think its 4 quid on the stands). For an extra two quid (each) I can get Astronomy Now, Astronomy and Sky and Telescope. And for the princely sum of nothing, I can get Arcturus.

In my opinion, Astronomy and Space is a poor quality magazine for the price. If it was less than two quid, I might be persuaded that it is value for money. The paper quality is ppor, the magazine has a disproportionate amount of advertising per unit area and frankly, the article in general are regurgitated press releases from the various astro organisations. On the whole, I have gotten maybe two or three genuinely unique articles in a year - hardly worth 40 euro a year.

And to top it off, there are regular monthly mails asking volunteers to come and stuff the mag into envelopes. And then I get it it late.

Actually, now that I've written this, why the hell did I just renew my subscription? Doh!

Sorry Dave - my opinion - less than good value-for-money magazine...

Dave

Sorry Dave - I have to disagree strongly with you there. The magazine works out at about three quid (by subscriotion - I think its 4 quid on the stands). For an extra two quid (each) I can get Astronomy Now, Astronomy and Sky and Telescope. And for the princely sum of nothing, I can get Arcturus. In my opinion, Astronomy and Space is a poor quality magazine for the price. If it was less than two quid, I might be persuaded that it is value for money. The paper quality is ppor, the magazine has a disproportionate amount of advertising per unit area and frankly, the article in general are regurgitated press releases from the various astro organisations. On the whole, I have gotten maybe two or three genuinely unique articles in a year - hardly worth 40 euro a year.
Dave

Dave,

Like you disagreed with Dave Grennan, I have to disagree strongly with your criticisms. It’s a bit ridiculous to compare the two big US magazines with A & S. For starters, the US has a population of over 350 million people. Sky & Telescope probably has a customer base well in excess of 100,000 and is part of the large Sky Publishing Corporation with a rake of full-time staff and responsible for promoting a host of astronomy related products besides the magazine. Astronomy also has a huge customer base and is part of the Kalmbach Publishing Group, again with numerous full-time staff and with its fingers in many aspects of publishing besides astronomy. Not sure how Astronomy Now operates but it is catering to a population of 60 million, certainly has a sizeable UK following far in excess of A & S here, considerable UK advertising revenue and with some full-time staff as far as I know. Suggesting that A & S, basically a club magazine with a proportion on public release and run by a few part-time staff, could somehow match the content or production of Sky & Telescope or Astronomy, is a bit silly.

The reason Arcturus costs nothing is because John Flannery prepares it as a downloadable pdf file, although John does print some himself for distribution at SDAS meetings, presumably at his own cost. It’s a black & white file that you print yourself. Arcturus is only free, incidentally, beacuse John gives freely of his time and effort as do other contributors. To suggest that a 48-page full-colour printed magazine like A & S can be sold for less that two euro, displays a lack of knowledge of publishing costs. Printing costs go up for small volume runs, not the other way around and neither printers or graphic designers work for nothing. I can’t quite believe anyone would moan in this day and age about paying just over 3 euro per month for a full colour magazine, especially when it’s a discretionary purchase! The fact that you renewed your membership suggests to me that you actually like the magazine more that you care to admit here! Regarding ads, the January issue has 4 pages of ads (and three of them are on the front and back covers), so how that translates into a disproportionate amount of ads is quite beyond me. I would suggest you add up pages or part pages devoted to ads compared to total pages in the other magazines and report your percentage findings here.

All the astronomy magazines use press releases from various astronomy sources. Where else do you think they get their news items from - bands of roving astronomy reporters scouring the countryside? This is patently obvious from the News sections in the magazines so why you choose to single out A & S is again beyond me. And on this point, due to its very short lead time, A & S is usually well ahead on up-to-date news compared to the US magazines with their two to three month lead times. Only two or three unique articles in a year!!! I’ve written more that that myself, and they are all unique based on my observing sessions and product assessments. If you feel that you can contribute a unique article, you know, one that you personally would enjoy reading if written by someone else and is likely to appeal to the general A & S readership, why don’t you write and submit one?

Gordon

If you feel that you can contribute a unique article, you know, one that you personally would enjoy reading if written by someone else and is likely to appeal to the general A & S readership, why don’t you write and submit one?

Hope you have better luck that I've had trying to get a light pollution article into it. Still no response from the editor despite many follow ups from me...

Didn't someone else here write an article or iridium flares for them that they never replied to also?

Cheers,
~Al