RTE & the Astronomy voice of Ireland

I know I said I wasnt gonna post again:)

Look as I see it this is what it boils down to.

When you join AI you get a package which includes A&S Mag, how the committee is formed, association with A&S Ltd. If you feel that its not good value for money then dont join/renew that is your choice. However by excluding AI, IFAS is totally ignoring the thousands of people who *are* happy with what AI does and are happy to join/renew etc.

AI would like to be associated with IFAS and support all of the worthy endeavours carried out by its member clubs, however if IFAS says no then so be it. AI will continue to promote astronomy in this country as will IFAS.

By treating AI as it does IFAS disregards the massive time and effort put into astronomy by volunteers up and down this country through its local branches. Knowing the great work these people do, that saddens me.

Now all that said I really want this thread to end. Can I suggest that if anyone wants to take issue with anything I said then please PM me rather than post here. Cause if you do I'll have to respond and we'll be here till next new year!!!!

Dave.

IF however IFAS decides to allow AI to join then this would be welcomed and graciously accepted. Imagine comet sessions being held by IFAS with AI and all the local clubs acting as one big umbrella organisation.

Is this the same AI that won't even respond to mails about affiliating to ILPAC? The same AI that recieved promotion for its events and posters etc. for the venus transit from the vt-2004 project, but never even mentioned the project or other events in articles, emails or a link on its website? The same AI that described SDAS as "competition" in refusing to let them display at astro-expo? The same AI that does not mention other clubs events despite asking in its magazine to be informed about upcoming events?

If something has changed, that AI now actually wants to 'play with the other children' so to speak, then great. I look forward to a contructive relationship between ILPAC and AI.

Dave your comments portray an AI willing to take part in astronomy with other clubs, unfortunately I don't see any evidence of this from AI itself. Hopefully I'll see evidence of AI being willing to engage with other groups in future.

Clubs and individuals here, and me personally, have tried to reach out to AI in the past. I have got nothing back. I offered to set up a public mailing list for members and was told to desist immediately, ILPAC (chronicalled elsewhere!), I asked for details of their transit activities to put on the vt-2004 website and got no reply, but I found out information on their website and publicised it anyway. To suggest that IFAS must make some change to itself to be more acceptable to AI is a joke really. If AI is serious about 'playing with the other children' then start showing it, otherwise AI will continue to be seen as a 'special child who sits in the corner with all his own toys and donesnt wan't to play with anyone else'.

If AI just wants to keep moaning about IFAS and continue to ignore the outsretched hands of other clubs and individuals then thats their choice.

Just read another of DG's posts:

AI would like to be associated with IFAS and support all of the worthy endeavours carried out by its member clubs

Dave, this comment is really a joke! Supporting "all of the worthy endeavours carried out by its member clubs" is not dependent on having voting members on the IFAS council, AI could start working with other clubs today, if it wanted to...

I would like to believe your comment, but AI acts to the contrary.

however if IFAS says no then so be it.

If AI doesnt want to engage, then so be it.

Cheers,
~Al

PS - As Shane said, This may not be my last post on this topic but I would prefer if it was.

If AI just wants to keep moaning about IFAS and continue to ignore the outsretched hands of other clubs and individuals then thats their choice.

Al now you are joking!! How on earth can you construe how IFAS treats AI as 'outsretched hands'. Are you seriously expecting AI to support individuals/organisations who choose to treat our club this way. AI will support other IFAS clubs once all of this AI bashing stops and IFAS allows AI to join.

Dave, this comment is really a joke! Supporting "all of the worthy endeavours carried out by its member clubs" is not dependent on having voting members on the IFAS council, AI could start working with other clubs today, if it wanted to...

Like I said, AI *would like to* support all of these worthy clubs and organisations. AI expects nothing in return except for you guys to stop treating us, its volunteers, like some kind of pariah. You dont have to like AI or its organisational structure. All you need do is get on with your thing let AI get on with its thing, work together as best as possible for the betterment of astronomy in this country and let the astronomical public decide on which organisation they want to subscribe to. Al. I would dearly love to see ILPAC being supported by AI. All I am saying is lets stop this arguing and knocking each other and get on with it.

Dave

With all the promises of 'buying each other a pint' on this thread, could someone let me know when you've decided a venue? Should make for a great nights entertainment.... :lol: :lol:

!! How on earth can you construe how IFAS treats AI as 'outsretched hands'. Are you seriously expecting AI to support individuals/organisations who choose to treat our club this way. AI will support other IFAS clubs once all of this AI bashing stops and IFAS allows AI to join.

How have ILPAC or SDAS or TAS etc. "bashed" AI to the extent that it does not want to deal with us? ILPAC hasn't based AI, so can AI get on with helping against light pollution please?

Like I said, AI *would like to* support all of these worthy clubs and organisations. AI expects nothing in return except for you guys to stop treating us, its volunteers, like some kind of pariah. You dont have to like AI or its organisational structure. All you need do is get on with your thing let AI get on with its thing, work together as best as possible for the betterment of astronomy in this country and let the astronomical public decide on which organisation they want to subscribe to. Al. I would dearly love to see ILPAC being supported by AI. All I am saying is lets stop this arguing and knocking each other and get on with it.

Dave, have a look at this site. It's 15 clubs getting on with it, promoting astronomy, fighting light pollution. The clubs here do not treat AI workers as a pariah. What is "you guys" meant to mean above anyway? Every member of the 15 clubs here? A selective group that AI wont deal with?

Again, ILPAC does not treat AI as a pariah. In fact I've tried working with AI, putting up links, sending articles, offering to give talks but no response. Hell I've enev offered _not_ to be the one to give a talk or write an article!

If AI just wants to sit there and moan about two seats at a comittee table a couple of times a year as an excuse not to engage with other clubs or organisations then fine.

You say that AI would like to support ILPAC. ILPAC would like this too! Can you get someone in AI to drop me a mail so we can work on this? Or as you say in your first comment, is IFAS having AI as a member a prerequisite for AI to deal with other clubs and organisations?

With all the promises of 'buying each other a pint' on this thread, could someone let me know when you've decided a venue? Should make for a great nights entertainment.... :lol: :lol:

I have not promised anyone a pint, though I probably should buy Dave Grennan a peace pint and have a good long chat since we seem to be on different wavelengths over some issues!

I think the venue was the Connaught Star Party, most likley the Saturday night if there is no observing.

Cheers,
~Al