'Are UFOs Real?'

Hello James,

Thank you for your projection.

To answer your questions regarding my background and your comments "All I can say is, if you believe in this stuff then do the research yourself".

I have a masters degree in Astronomy and I am studying for a PhD in planetary science with PSSRI in UK. I have scientific peer reviewed publications in the SETI field, especially in the new field of SETV (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. On invitation, I have presented some aspects of this material you have been reading, to all the major professional conferences in Bioastronomy, ESA astrobiology, OSETI and EuroSETI in the last 5 years.

I am in collaboration with other SETI scientists in pioneering this new area of SETV. I have established a SETV observatory that has been partly supported and financed by French and Italian Institutiuons. Apparently, in the last 2 years SETI scientists are now seriously considering searching the solar system for ET probes/artifacts when the new Allan Array telescope is established. The good news is for SETV is that there has been a gradual swing to opening up to these new strategies.

I hope this clarifies.

Eamonn A

I'm not really sure if I believe in these visitations yet, or not. But! I'm afraid that to date, the type of information I am being confronted with by the likes of Eamonn and others may just sway me in their direction. Why? well, they present me with information as to why it might be possible, something to "chew" over. On the other hand, I am presented with information by the sceptics who pleasure in making derogatory remarks about "little green men" and this I find offensive to my intelligence. The proof offered to me by the sceptics amounts to nothing more than, "they can't be visiting because you can't travel faster than light". "Why haven't they landed yet?" "Why would they come here?" and other such unscientific queries/assumptions. I'm afraid that if it was to come to a vote, the sceptics at this point wouldn't get mine with their patronising unscientific and arrogant arguments.
How much more arrogant can we as humans get. Because we can't find a means to travel faster than light or use wormholes or whatever, then we assume that no life in this universe can!
And as for why would they come here? perhaps for the very same reason that we can travel to the moon, or send probes to Mars, Jupiter and Venus, because we can! One day, maybe, we will be sending probes/people to some of these exoplanets we are finding and maybe the inhabitants, if any, will be asking the same questions about us.
Eamonn has offered some intelligent information which makes for a lively and interesting debate. Come on sceptics, follow his example and give us some good intelligent information based on scientific fact as to why it's not happening. Make it good, and don't endanger the thread by insulting us and having it locked down.
Bill H.

I'm not really sure if I believe in these visitations yet, or not. But! I'm afraid that to date, the type of information I am being confronted with by the likes of Eamonn and others may just sway me in their direction. Why? well, they present me with information as to why it might be possible, something to "chew" over. On the other hand, I am presented with information by the sceptics who pleasure in making derogatory remarks about "little green men" and this I find offensive to my intelligence. The proof offered to me by the sceptics amounts to nothing more than, "they can't be visiting because you can't travel faster than light". "Why haven't they landed yet?" "Why would they come here?" and other such unscientific queries/assumptions. I'm afraid that if it was to come to a vote, the sceptics at this point wouldn't get mine with their patronising unscientific and arrogant arguments.
How much more arrogant can we as humans get. Because we can't find a means to travel faster than light or use wormholes or whatever, then we assume that no life in this universe can!
And as for why would they come here? perhaps for the very same reason that we can travel to the moon, or send probes to Mars, Jupiter and Venus, because we can! One day, maybe, we will be sending probes/people to some of these exoplanets we are finding and maybe the inhabitants, if any, will be asking the same questions about us.
Eamonn has offered some intelligent information which makes for a lively and interesting debate. Come on sceptics, follow his example and give us some good intelligent information based on scientific fact as to why it's not happening. Make it good, and don't endanger the thread by insulting us and having it locked down.
Bill H.

bill,
i think things are getting a little bit confused here. firstly it up to people who say that there are intellegent aliens visiting to prove to the rest that they are doing so not for the sceptics to do the opposite. belief does not constitute proof. they have yet to bring forward an ashtray made on the moons of castor6 (assuming there are moons and planets there.). all these papers about the probablities of alien societies are only that probabilities, not proof. it does not mean they cannot be true in the future .

i am not saying that these civilisations do not exist or that they do not have technology that could travel FTL and make a nonsense of our science that is not the point. all of the discussions like that are just like discussing how many angels fit on the head of a pin. as for the talk of other dimensions is also theoretical as there is no solid proof that they exist, and even if they do there is no evidence, even theoretical that you can travel from one to another only speculation. this maybe even beyond the most advanced civilisation as there is no proof that something could move from one universe to another and survive.

there appear to be certain things such as ball lighting and other atmospheric effects which are little understood and could be mistaken for ufos, and there should be studies on these both theoretical and physical. but to go straight to alien spaceships or ghosts from another dimesions is no more scientific that the detractors are being.
stephen.

I agree with you wholeheartedly Stephen. My point is that while I am not convinced one way or another, I do prefer to listen to people with something to say rather than the condescending remarks that get made by sceptics. I would listen to the sceptics as well, understanding that it may not be their place to prove the non-existance. But, when it comes to this sort of debate, I'm always amazed that everyone can listen to people talking about wormholes, string theory, and other such whatdyacallits, with a normal response of, "hey! interesting theory". Never comments such as "well what a load of bollox" or "God! does that mean we are under attack from space worms?". It's all theory, so treat it all the same, it's up to the believers to prove it, so let them do their job, no need to be derogatory. Personally, I am not of that type of science, my main science is of the mind, and to me, ET is quite frankly more of a possibility than wormholes or string theory. I have tried looking into both these subjects by I can't get my head around it.
I enjoy a little light-heartedness in my debates like the next man, but sometimes the remarks just get insulting.
Bill H.

It must be cloudy tonight...

Can I throw my two cents in folks?

I agree with a lot of the sentiments on this thread but I have to agree with Bill that throwing insults really doesn't move us forward and it cheapens the debate in my mind to the detriment of all - insulters and insultees.

Now I'm sure no offence or malice was meant by any of the comments but a good clean fight is always best

The remark that set a bell off in my head was the one that said something like 'prove it or let it be exposed as a fraud'. Just because something can't be proved doesn't mean its a fraud. A fraud would be someone knowingly perpetuating a lie and gaining something from it (money, kudos etc).

Personally I am not convinced one way or another - like most of the folks here, but I would be fully supportive of anyone willing to spend their time and money to actively explore this field in a scientific manner. Personally, my vocation lies elsewhere - but I'm sure that these folks would respect my chosen field as much as I respect theirs.

If it is proven, that's when the fun would really start!

What do you think would happen if the existence of life elsewhere were proven beyond doubt? I certainly remember the buzz going round over the fossilised remains of an unimpressive microbe in a rock...

I bet Hello would pay a fair whack for the exclusive first interview

Cheers

Dave McD

The remark that set a bell off in my head was the one that said something like 'prove it or let it be exposed as a fraud'. Just because something can't be proved doesn't mean its a fraud. A fraud would be someone knowingly perpetuating a lie and gaining something from it (money, kudos etc).

That sounds like me.

What I mean by those comments is that after a scientific investigation is conclued (assuming a conclusion is reached) then we know what it is; whether proved as a new version of an f-16 or a cheap frizbee. If it remains unproved, then well it remains unproved; though the balance of probability towards an explanation may be ascerted.

I'm sure that there are a lot of fake UFO photographs, and I would go as far as suggesting that some are produced for fraud to gain TV money or sell books etc. These folks are just crooks.

It might be cloudy but I'm finishing writeups and so can get very easily distracted - by anything. The mere mention of 'Bad Wolf' can keep me distracted for hours

What do you think would happen if the existence of life elsewhere were proven beyond doubt?

I think the Vatican would need every bit of the new email system we (Sun) just sold them

Cheers,
~Al