'Are UFOs Real?'

Al - yes, just read the post where you made the statement.

I agree with you on the folks who use the faith (small 'f') of others in order to make a quick buck. Dodgy pics of a frizbee, suspect video footage etc.

I think there's definately a clear distinction between those who are rational and want to scientifically investigate phenomena that currently cannot be fully explained and the crooks and fraudsters you refer to who prey on the vulnerable.

Perhaps the third group are those that believe that there ARE intelligent aliens whizzing across the Atlantic and hope to be abducted any time soon and prodded and probed... This group are the ones that the fraudsters target I guess.

If the scientists come up with a conclusion that disproves alien visitations then I wouldn't consider that a fraud though. In fact, it would be a good thing if they exposed the fraudsters.

I've read over the last couple of years of the research the Vatican is doing in astronomy - they've a pretty good setup (I think 40 odd researchers and at least one decent scope in the USA). But I also heard that the top dogs in the robes don;t pay too much attention to it. Add tt least we know where some of our collection money is going - a new email system

I think if there is conclusive proof of life other than Earth, it'll be the story of all time. Presuming we are told about it...

Cheers and get back to your work instead of meandering about on here


Dave McD

I think if there is conclusive proof of life other than Earth, it'll be the story of all time. Presuming we are told about it...

Unfortunately the population has been exposed to enough media dumbing-down and blurring of reality that IF this story did ever break it would go something like;

"Okay, I've had enough of the little green men. Can you switch over to Big Brother?" :roll:

I don't think an alien visit, or even conclusive proof of ETI will have the cultural/religious/society-changing impact it would have had even 50 years ago.

"Okay, I've had enough of the little green men. Can you switch over to Big Brother?" :roll:

Oh dear I am now seeing Dr. Who references everywhere!

Cheers,
~Al
--
dab flow

Al & Dave, hoaxes in the UFO field are prevalent. About 90% of UFO photos have been taken by teenage boys, and about 99% of those are hoaxes. This does not mean we can label a photo a hoax simply because we can find no other explanation for it. It does not mean that we can call any case a hoax just because there is no easy way to solve it.

But we must also be aware that having no solution to a case does not lead us directly to the ETH (extraterrestrial hypothesis). Some of the reports do suggest manufactured crafts that are operating outside the realm of our technology and that suggest alien visitation. But the observational evidence presented does not provide the proof that we all desire. It is a strong indication, but in the end, we must be fair and admit that it is not definite.

Regarding the Vatican. the Vatican are well aware of the UFO situation and do take it seriously. It would not surprise me that they have conducted there own research in this area. This has manifested recently by Monsignor Balducci.

Quoting from a citation award from the recent X Conference2005 ie. Exo politics in the USA. This conference is a platform for to get the media and politicians to disclose the 'evidence' of UFOs and ET presence.

Monsignor Corrado Balducci received the award for courage in Disclosure at the X-conference April 23,2005. Steven Barrett awarded this most outspoken and courageous Italian Priest and once Vatican Representative for his public disclosure concerning the importance of witness testimony of the thousands of UFO sightings and his sustaining that God also may have created other civilizations. Monsignor Balducci sustains that the word Universe is mentioned 66 times in Bible and that the phrase Christ, King of the universe has an implicit reference to other planets , galaxies and their possible inhabitants. Monsignor Balducci was applauded by the almost 400 participants of the X-Conference at a gala dinner that Saturday night.

jhonan, despite the UFO phenomenon having continued now for over two generations, I think the huge technological head start of the presumed ETs would still come as a shock to many scientists as well as citizenry, as the Brookings report indicates. It could seriously challenge our consensual reality. the implication that we would be powerless relative to their presumed capabilities and evolutionery advantage may be most unwelcome, with it being no surprise that science would have difficulty coming to terms with the situation (see Sturrock). I do agree with you that a significant amount of people could not be bothered by the implications as it would not affect their lives. I think the effect may be with governments around the world and how to stabilize some sectors of society.

The reality of the phenomenon and of our having long since been discovered by advanced ETs now may be more probable than that Fermi's paradox is to be resolved through either the non existence of advanced ETs or their inability to explore or colonise the galaxy.

U.S. House of Representatives Report No. 242, "Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs", 1961

P.A. Sturruck, "Extraterrestrial Intelligent Life", Q.J.R. Astron.Soc., 19,p.521,1989.

Eamonn A

I go away for 2 days and look at what happens!
I didnt think my questions earlier were arrogant or insulting?!? or am I been arrogant again
Anyway, If they were, then that was not the intention.

As for why havent they landed, Eamon might have just answered that

"I think the huge technological head start of the presumed ETs would still come as a shock to many scientists as well as citizenry, as the Brookings report indicates. It could seriously challenge our consensual reality. the implication that we would be powerless relative to their presumed capabilities and evolutionery advantage may be most unwelcome, with it being no surprise that science would have difficulty coming to terms with the situation (see Sturrock). I do agree with you that a significant amount of people could not be bothered by the implications as it would not affect their lives. I think the effect may be with governments around the world and how to stabilize some sectors of society."

presuming they are non hostile and do give a damn about our civilisation.

I do not think they are here, this is just my opinion, and by saying that I do not mean to belittle anyone else, I do respect people with differing opinions to me.

Like any scientific hypothesis (this is the engineer in me talking), you need to look at what proofs are currently available and come to a conclusion.
Such as string theory, current scientific models do indicate that its a plausable theory (if you bother to read up on it), its not a matter of belief.
UFO/visitations/abductions/etc... I just dont think there is enough proof for it.
This does not mean I wont be swayed if proof comes along.

presuming they are non hostile and do give a damn about our civilisation.

We will assume that if they are capable of visiting our planet, then they will also be vastly superior to us (in terms of intelligence and technology, and probably on a religious and philosophical level as well).

This is the 'why would they visit us?' debate.

- They are aggressive, and want some resource that our planet has. They're not interested in us or our stone-age technology, and they certainly wouldn't be interested in communicating with us or sharing their technology. So they come to our planet, take the resource, and leave. If we try to interfere, well, too bad for us.

or;

- They are non-aggressive explorers, and want to find out about us. If they are capable of inter-planetary travel, then it is possible there are hundreds of races at different stages of development that they could visit. If they visit us, then it will be primarily to observe, there would be no benefit to them to communicate with us (there's nothing we have that they want), with the chance we might steal their technology and use it to help in our self-destruction. I'm verging dangerously close to trekkie 'Prime Directive' stuff here...

or;

- They are non-aggressive explorers who WANT to communicate with us. Which means they would be willing to share their knowledge and technology with us. This doesn't seem logical. If they are clever enough to travel across the galaxy, then they should be clever enough to predict our intentions and actions and realise the LAST thing they should do is communicate with us.

or;

- They just happen to be passing through and aren't that interested in us, they encounter other life forms every day of the week. Let's call it the 'Hitchhikers Guide' scenario. And we know how that one ends up