A.I. Dr Stuart Clark Nationwide talks

Seanie
Some very serious (maybe even approaching liablous) allegations there. I dont remember you being around at the time of the historical events of 15 years ago. Are these anecdotes that you've heard and are just carying the flame or were you involved.

I was there, though not with the IAS, and had direct dealings with Moore himself around that time (WSP '92).

Which part(s) appear libellous? Of course some of my facts may be open to correction. My interpretations of Ronan's post are just that, based on how I felt his post was coming across. He'll correct me of course what I have wrong.

Dave Gradwell
Amateur astronomer and not a member of any club!

Not even Birr? Is there a club down there at all of late Dave? Shame to see it disappear if there is none.

Seanie.

Seanie: if you keep bring up the past things we will never move on. If they can make peace in the north can we not do it here. Or do we need to get our ministers in to solve this dispute.

We have moved on Carl! Just in relation to Peters retort, I was just mentioning the history (in case he didn't know there was any).

Ministers? Bah! The only thing they could make quickly is a rise in taxes!

Personally I think this is a good thing. The most important thing to remember is that quite a few more people could become interested in astronomy through talks like this.

If these people become interested enough to find out more, then this is also more potential members for Galway Astronomy Club, if you take the opportunity to let more people find out about you.

Looks like they are trying to make inroads into Cork and Galway, as they have "targets".

Again

It would have been nice if the concession offered had been issued to the clubs prior to the talks being announced, and prior to this discussion. Things like that would help build relationships, appearing to tread on other clubs toes does not.

Ronan, see if there is some way that you can leverage this to increase membership in your own club. Perhaps A&S would be willing to let you make a quick announcement at the talk , or leave leaflets on chairs to promote your next meeting or event?

You know, I was typing a big lenghty post in reply to individual points raised and then I started to lose the will to live. How many times have I typed that stuff before on these boards? Life is too short to be repeating oneself incessantly. So what I'll do instead is make list of points just to summarise and clarify.

Astronomy Ireland IS a non-profit organisation. None of the monies collected go to anyone and all end up in the societies bank account. If anyone has a problem with that, take it up with the societies auditors or the revenue commissioners who audited the society and gave it a clean bill of health. All monies are used to pay AI's running costs. A&S is a company run to sell telescopes by Mr. David Moore. Thats how it is. I suppose the relationship is similar to the 'Sky at Night' magazine, which uses a goodwill 'brand' to sell its commercial product. I don't see the problem

AI is a NATIONAL society and was around a lot longer than many local clubs. If anyone is muscling in it aint AI, cause AI have been around since 1990.

AI is now moving to a phase where it can fulfill its role as a national organistion holding events outside of Dublin. (as it should have been doing all along).

Carl O'B has ensured that A&S's prices are now in many cases even cheaper than those in the UK. Many people on these boards have now bought their gear from him and have gotten fantastic prices. Ai is proud to support A&S as A&S supports AI too.

AI is now moving to a phase where it can fulfill its role as a national organistion holding events outside of Dublin. AI is a very large organisation.

Many senior AI members are trying to build bridges to IFAS. Why? Because AI recognises the importance of local clubs as a means to deliver astronomy to areas which AI cannot do at present.

I would also ask you to look closely at how all of this AI bashing makes IFAS look in the eyes of the people who view the board. On many occassions I have met people at AI events who are disillusioned by the attitude of a small minority on these boards. People have quit these boards as a direct result of it. I would say to those people that you are not doing IFAS any favours at all by bemoaning the fact that Ai is just doing what it is supposed to be doing.

Look closely at what is happening here. AI is running a few nationwide talks and a whole furore blows up. People will say 'Running talks? But isn't that what astronomy clubs are supposed to do? . Why are these guys getting so upset about that?'It just makes IFAS look silly.

You talk about competition, when you should be talking co-operation. AI has no interest in competing with local clubs. Competition in business is a good thing, in this case it just polarises a community. I have said to the AI guys on many occassions, if we cant co-operate with these guys then just leave em to their own devices. Which brings me to another point. If Ai is as bad as you make out, why are getting so worried about it? Surely if AI is that bad people would see through that and Ai would fade. The opposite is happening AI is growing. Can you say the same about your club?

I want to see co-operation but only on the basis of mutual respect. If a club or senior mambers of a club continue to invest their time and effort into knocking everything AI does then you are on your own. A lot of good things can come from co-operation. I am heartened to see that in fact a significant portion of the IFAS community feel the same way. What I would say to those who continue to drag up the past, and use it as a stick to hinder progress is you are a an insignificant minority. Those of us who choose astronomy before astro-politics will move forward and you will be left behind.

I was just mentioning the history (in case he didn't know there was any).

...and that my friend, is exactly the problem. Why does Peter (or anyone) need a history lesson which just breeds resentment.