'Are UFOs Real?'

methinks this UFO stuff is a pile of cobblers. why would they come all this way to gang probe a load of american rednecks, or when they are really bored practice surgery on their cattle?. people see what they want to see and you can't convince them otherwise. they need something to believe in no matter how strange. at the start of the 20th century they would be seeing angels or mary at lourdes. the cold war and and science fiction created another religion for them to believe in.

this whole area seems to be two different things mixed up with alot of urban legend thrown in for good measure. some of the sigthings are probably military expirements such as what goes on in area 51 aka dreamland. alot of these aircraft need to be tested secretly but it is hard to hide totally a secret doing 600+ miles an hour permanently. they use UFOs to hide these tests.

there is obviously some events which occur in the earth atmosphere such as ball lighting that need to be studied. people see these and immediately think UFO. this is because media and the culture has taught them to think like that. just cause it is unidentified it is not necessarily a little green man (or a grey one if that takes your fancy). i think alot of the sightings are people imagining things. whenever i see these reports it is nearly always someone in the middle of nowhere driving. they may see something they cant explain or maybe they just imagine it. it is a good way of getting your 15 minutes of fame. as for most pictures and film it is not very convincing. after all this time you think just one person could get a decent image. decent cameramen must be a rarer find than a LGM. if they really want to impress us they should just land on the lawn of the white house and be done with it. i dont think most people would die of shock and i am sure the worlds religions could cope.
stephen.

I agree with all that but I have to say UFO's make great films.

Just watched "Signs" the other night, great stuff.

As for sightings, I put them in the same category as religon....I'd like it to be true but don't believe it is.

Somehow, this says a lot about the drop in church attendance in Ireland. I guess people need to believe in something. Having been down both paths ie dragged to Sunday school every week and having been a scientist I know that both paths lead nowhere but that belief and faith are what counts. If people had the belief to do something constructive on Earth rather than looking for something that doesn't exist in the sky then the world would be a better place.

Huh? What has this got to do with church attendance? Sure there is an amount of belief needed to accept UFO's (alien or not) but to go from there to assert than this is responsible for a decline in church attendences in Ireland is a bit much. There are much more important factors.

I might as well throw somehing that Dawkins quotes a lot regarding agnosticism into the mix. It is possible that there is a china teapot in orbit around Pluto. We cannot be sure that it does not exist, hence we cannot be atheist (not believe in it) and must be agnostic (well it might be there). The overwhelming balance of probabiliy indicates that there is no teapot, therfore we do not accept its existance. Dawkins doesnt realy like being told he should be agnostic and not athiest.

Belief in God is for another topic, so I'll leave you to your own deities (or not) to discus that! But it has paralles for UFO's. There is (for me) a balance of evidence that says that things from time to time do appear in the sky that are flying and unknown and possibly objects (including atmospheric "objects"). There is also, for me, a wealth of evidence that says that aliens cannot be flying them; hence I bo not believe in that. This has nothing to do with my mass attendance

fwiw, James I'll go along with your Spencer quote in general, but you need bo be carful of the teapot problem again. "contempt prior to investigation" seems to imply that we should not state that the teapot around pluto does not exist before going and looking. Probability must come into play. Unfortunately probability is not a well understood by the general public, "the chances of me getting hit by a car are almost nill but I might win the lotto". I'm tempted to start a society to have it accepted (and taught in US schools!) that the teapot might exists and so is as valid as any other theory (say... evolution, gravity, existance of god etc.) and to leade a crusade against those who say it doesnt exist just to see what happens.

The Spencer quote was Bill's and not mine.

I didn't mean to say that UFOs account for falling church attendance. I was saying that people need to believe in something. If one belief set fails a person then they try another. In the same way that some born atheists become Christians.

I was once looking into the sky and the clouds parted to show a small white sphere hovering. I ran inside to get some binoculars but the clouds closed in again. Weather balloon, I'm sure. That or the mothership returning for me.

Al - if we get some clear skies, I'll try and image Pluto and its oprbiting teapot. I guess I'll have to do it over an extended period of nights just in case the teapot is currently behind the planet. Of course, I'll need to stack many images to resolve said teapot. Of course, if you have any information or even speculation on the teapot in terms of its absolute size (it could be larger or smaller than a standard Earth teapot) I would be grateful.

I will of course ensure that said study will be made freely and publicly available, whether the teapot is found or not. Because of course, a negative result is simply anther data point and not proof by itself of the absence of the teapot.

If the study does not find the teapot, then I will extend it to include other household items - teacup, tea strainer, kettle. I could then move onto white goods (dishwasher, washing machine, toaster) and when I get my new Celestron 18" Dall-Kirkham, I can go real deep - cutlery, spatulas, cruet sets and so on.

Would anyone like to collaborate? Actually, Bill, can you lend me the LPI so I can autoguide? I will of course therefore jointly credit you with the discovery (or not) of any household (or indeed other) item found orbiting Pluto.

And Keith - perhaps you could take some of those lovely wide shots in the general location of Pluto (I doubt the DSLR will image any of these kitchen utilities but it would be nice to put the sudy in context).

And finally, if anyone has difficulty in signing up to this study publicly via this message board, then feel free to PM me.

Cheers

Dave McD

U.F.O.s ARE REAL!!!.... and I've seen PROOF!

If you look closely at the bottom right quarant of the picture..... :lol:

Al - if we get some clear skies, I'll try and image Pluto and its oprbiting teapot.

I've yet to manage pluto at all so your on your own

Cheers,
~Al