UFO last night & ET Life

Dave G:
Before you read this just take it that its written in good humour,
(sometimes I think people take things up the wrong way on webpages and the like)
I believe there is some form of life, somewhere out there.
That dosnt mean I think they are 'The Greys' visiting us
in thier shiny flashy saucers.

As you say yourself ;
''just because something could be true doesn't mean it is.''
conversly,
it dosen't mean it isn't either.
And by that I mean, YOU personally choose to believe an advanced alien
would NOT choose to come here.
(because we are ants to them or whatever)
Grand, thats your opinion and everyone is entitled to it.
But if you dont believe in ET life then it should stop there shouldn't it?
If you go on to say they wouldnt bother coming here assumes they
actually do exist in the first place.
Then that leaves the back door open for all kinds of reasoning.

You say:
''Just because life COULD exist elsewhere doesnt mean it DOES.''
- um, yeah I get that.
so what point ary you trying to make there?

Also:
''What I fail to understand is that when some phenomenon is 'unexplained' people automatically assume it must be some alien life form visiting us. ''

I also fail to understand that.
I think sometime people mix up the issue.
A UFO is, what it is,
An unidentified flying object.
And untill it can be explained it remains that.
People attaching an intelligence to it do it at thier disgression.
For me a reported UFO dosnt mean 'the greys' are hovering around.,

If you listen to some of the black box recordings on the first docu above
you will hear pilots reporting ufo's.
I'm sure its hard for them to do so as there is such a stigma attached to this.
I woulod just take it that they saw something
and it obviously needs further study to determin what thay saw.
As far as I can remember, none of them say anything about Aliens.
Just on of the tower controll guys says something like
''its this roswell crap again''

On another note,
Most of these discovery / sky1 docus are painfull to watch.
only a handfull that i have seen approach anything half well put together.


I dont understand why people laugh the UFO or ET issue off.

I too have been skywatching for many years and I have seen nothing.
I have heard someone say before that if any group should see UFO's
its astronomers.
I'm sure there are some astronomers out there that hve seen something!

On another note,
Most of these discovery / sky1 docus are painfull to watch.
only a handfull that i have seen approach anything half well put together.

Discovery did a couple of Days of UFO files over the Christmas break. A lot were painful to watch mostly because of the experts they wheeled out in some cases.

David Icke et. al. like to talk about UFO's and lizards, however I don't recall a single piece where he or those like him have provided anything useful to the programme.

Even the scientific analysis is often flawed. In another programme about the UFO sightings of LA a few years back. An expert analised the video images to analise the light from the objects and standard lights. Sounds ok, but what he appeared to be doing was just getting a profile of the light across a line of pixels, which means nothing with compressed video. And certainly does not provide any spectral analysis which I think is what he was claiming it did.

That approach might make passable TV, but having a scientific advisor edit it would be a lot better.

One thing I would really love to see would be a time team type programme based around one of the so called UFO hotspots. Get astronomers, aviation expers and imaging experts, get multiple cameras out for triangulation, get high magnification images, get spectroscopic results etc. Of course that could easily turn into a 'Most haunted' type programe if done badly!

Hi to all
My name is Mike, I am living in Meath and I am new to this forum. This is my first posting (baptism of fire).
Is there intelligent life out there in the cosmos? This is a very good question and one that perhaps more people are interested in than they let be known (e.g. number of hits on this forum regarding ET life and the possibility of such visitation).
All I can offer is my opinion and from looking at the sky for a good number of years I have witnessed unusual aerial phenomena that I cannot explain away easily (I will not go into details here), however this does not necessarily mean the following equation UFO = Aliens.
From a scientific point of view there is both empirical and quantitative data available on the subject of possible interactions within our biosphere by an unknown intelligence. One only has to look at the work of the SETV (Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation) currently taking place by scientists from various countries. The work completed and continuing in Hessdalen Norway by one of the main proponents Dr. Massimo Teodorani using a broad range of not only sophisticated optical equipment but also Radar, Magnetometers, radio spectrometers etc. These findings are available if one wants to delve more into this area of research. Included in SETV research is the possibility of looking for technological evidence of advanced civilisations outside of our solar system which can be performed on Earth and I am not implying SETI methodologies.
Let’s take it a step up here, there is audio recordings available of these alleged SACs (Strange Aerial Craft) in flight and hovering modes coupled with multiple witnesses (police, military and civilians) to the same event on more than one occasion. These recordings when analysed by scientists in accredited and well known labs (not knowing of their origin) and were unable to duplicate its complex morphing frequencies. In addition there was allegedly metal samples made available, again the process of manufacturing and layering by a cold fusion method was determined unknown by any Earthly technology.
All I can say is that there is a definitive phenomena taking place all over the world and witnessed by so many people from airline pilots, air traffic controllers, astronomers, police, military etc. I don’t know what the phenomena is exactly but I am keen to find out. Although I am not a scientist I believe the first point of being a scientist is to be at least curious.
Mike

Let’s take it a step up here, there is audio recordings available of these alleged SACs (Strange Aerial Craft) in flight and hovering modes coupled with multiple witnesses (police, military and civilians) to the same event on more than one occasion. These recordings when analysed by scientists in accredited and well known labs (not knowing of their origin) and were unable to duplicate its complex morphing frequencies.

Take one classified descendant of the Harrier, Osprey or Apache, or perhaps a Blackbird successor with vertical capability and add a little Stealth technology. Need I say more?

In addition there was allegedly metal samples made available, again the process of manufacturing and layering by a cold fusion method was determined unknown by any Earthly technology.

Nice one. Somebody mixed the words up to make them mean something different and added "earthly". "Manufactured and layered by a cold fusion method determined to be of an unknown technology." is more like it but all that really means is that the people investigating don't have access to that technology or the knowledge it's based on, whether foreign of domestic. It wouldn't be the first time that a metallurgical breakthrough was classified to prevent it falling into opposition hands.

These things don't have to be extraterrestrial, they just have to be unknown to the general public. Based on what's been declassified in the last fifty years what we think of as the limit of human scientific and technical achievement in these areas is just the tip of the black ops iceberg.

In the fourth Star Trek movie Scottie asked for transparent aluminium and audiences laughed, yet in its pure bulk form alumina (Al2O3) is solid, transparent and colourless. Both rubies and sapphires are forms of alumina coloured by impurities. In 2004 3M developed a method of alloying alumina with rare earth metal oxides to form a strong glass and the US Air Force is currently testing an alumina-based glass armour called ALON (boron doped aluminium oxynitride), developed by Raytheon and patented as long ago as 1985. Star Trek IV was made in 1986 but the very real 'transparent aluminium' on which the subplot was based only became known to the general public in the past 2-3 years. It can take decades for US patents with potentially useful military applications to become public knowledge, and who knows how long in other countries such as Russia or China where secrecy is even more a part of the government apparatus. Slipping the idea of a real classified product into a movie or TV series is a great way to camouflage it, just as 'serious' but somewhat unconvincing documentaries about UFOs are a good way to camouflage both your classified aircraft and, embarrasingly, those of your opponents that violate your airspace. The Pentagon, CIA and NSA all maintain offices in Hollywood, the former since before WWII. Stop and wonder: why?

Ah yes, I remember sitting in school looking out the window hoping for an alien invasion to break the monotony of Maths class.
Unfortunately, it never happened but UFO's still excite the imagination.

And this is the problem concerning UFO research. There are just too many people out there who simply WANT it to be true. I did a quick google search on the first encounter described in that documentary and websites such as 'ufocasebook.com' and 'ufology.com' are the most popular websites. With such a deluge of poor information sources and the pseudo science that surrounds them (such as the experts Al refers to), even the more credible reports get buried in noise.

I have an open mind on the subject, but there's simply not enough evidence to reach a conclusion either way. However, I dont doubt the phenomenon exists- the term 'UFO' is a broad brush. More credible research please...

Hi John, dpower
thank you for some interesting perspectives and input, I agree that the various samples of alleged extraterrestrial artefacts (I have chosen the word “alleged” for good reasons as in my previous post) given over for scientific analysis may as you say be of secret Earth technology and therefore unknown by the wider civilian scientific community. It’s possible that such technology is held by the military that’s 50 or more years ahead of what’s generally available as you have inferred, its possibly I guess.
I cannot comment on black ops, classified stealth technologies, CIA or NSA as my knowledge of these agencies and their intricacies within departments and involvement with other countries are unknown to me, my knowledge of Star Trek is unfortunately in a similar dilemma.
You say “These things don't have to be extraterrestrial; they just have to be unknown to the general public”.
I could also state; these things don't have to be secret Earth technology; they just have to be unknown to the general public and therefore possibly of extraterrestrial origin.
I therefore offer just one example of information (there are many) here based on the scientific analysis of the alleged extraterrestrial artefacts completed by civilian scientists (many of whom placed their heads on the proverbial academic chopping block). BTW this information is freely available..

Marcel Vogel: Research chemist for IBM for twenty-two years, held thirty-two patents, and invented the magnetic disk coating memory system still used in IBM disk memories. A specialist in the conversion of energy inside crystals, Vogel probed crystalline structures with the most complete optical microscopic equipment available in the world, a system of scanning electron microscopes. In 1979, Vogel was sent crystals and metal samples that was allegedly received from an extraterrestrial source.
Vogel reported,” When I touched the oxide with a stainless steel probe, red streaks appeared and the oxide coating disappeared. I just touched the metal like that, and it started to deoxidize and become a pure metal. I have never seen a phenomenon like that before.” Of another metal sample containing nearly every element in the periodic table, Vogel stated “Each pure element was bonded to each of the others, yet somehow retained its own identity.” At 500 X magnification thulium was revealed. “Thulium exists only in minute amounts. It is exceedingly expensive, far beyond platinum, and rare to come by. Someone would have to have an extensive metallurgical knowledge even to be aware of a composition of this type", said Vogel. At 1600 X Vogel said, "A whole new world appears in the specimen. There are structures within structures – very unusual." At 2500 X he found that the sample was, “metal, but at the same time ... it is crystal!"
Vogel put the full weight of his expertise in these summary comments: "With any technology that I know of, we could not achieve this on this planet! ... And I think it is important that those of us who are in the scientific world sit down and do some serious study on these things instead of putting it off as people's Imagination."

Again this does not prove or disprove anything to me either, are the samples of earthly origin or extraterrestrial origin, I am not sure as I do not have access to such research equipment and material even if I knew what I was looking for, but we should at least keep an open mind and remain neutral.

Regarding the sounds of alleged SACs, I must state that unfortunately I am not familiar with the technologies of “classified descendant of the Harrier, Osprey or Apache, or perhaps a Blackbird successor with vertical capability and add a little Stealth technology”.
The sounds I am referring to were recorded on two occasions on a “off the shelf” Aiwa sound recorder with noise suppression; in fact there was a number of tape recorders placed at varying distances from the SAC in this case. The sound of the SAC lasted thirty minutes and could be heard up to five miles distant, present at this event was civilians, a military jet and two policemen whom proceeded to leave in rather a hurry as the SAC increased in ascending decibels.
The sounds have been scrutinised by highly qualified people in their respective fields and could isolate the following noises from the original tape (Mirage 111 fighter jet, a dog barking, a European police siren, and an unknown sound source nowhere in the sound catalogue of all known sounds) here is just a small snippet of information relating to this phenomena…

Steve Ambrose: Sound engineer for Stevie Wonder, inventor of the Micro Monitor radio set and speaker that fits inside Wonder's ear analyzed the sound recordings of one of the alleged UFO’s. Not only was he unable to duplicate the sounds with synthesizers, he found they created totally unique patterns on a spectrum analyzer and on the oscilloscope. Another sound engineer named Nils Rognerud corroborated Ambrose’s findings. These experts, using state-of-the-art equipment, were unable to duplicate the sounds and the unique patterns generated.
The sound specialists examined this new segment of the recorded sounds and found the same as the previous teams. They found these sounds to be truly unique in three respects:
1. There were at least thirty or more discrete frequencies in a random and constantly shifting mix that ranged from 4 to 2170 Hz, but varied on average between 470 and 1452 Hz.
2. The amplitude of these frequencies was also constantly changing, whereby the dominance alternated.
3. The wave shape was also constantly changing in a random, periodic rhythm that caused a characteristic beat. The wave pattern in the oscilloscope showed this constant and random shift in frequency, in which the principal waves of all frequencies came together in perfect synchronization at one moment, only to travel at the next moment in different directions and stages, thereby generating different patterns—at one moment seemingly moving in a cluster in one direction and, at the next moment, in the other direction. Then they gradually expanded until, for one moment, they formed a mutually precise and evenly distributed pattern, only then to move again into different relationships. Although these changes appeared to be random and were not repeated in a particular order, they always appeared in geometric relationship to one another. Two other sound engineers and a synthesizer sound specialist joined the analysis team, and the sounds were reexamined, this time for possible duplication. All of these specialists agreed that the character of the sounds was unique and that any type of synthesis, if in fact such was possible, could produce only portions of the recordings we had examined and that duplicating only part of the sounds, even in a short linear segment, would be impossible. The number of traveling and constantly shifting discrete frequencies and constantly changing amplitudes, which were shifting in relative dominance, exhibited duplication problems that exceed the abilities of a current state-of-the-art device!”

Sorry for the long post, but I think the scientific information is important to mention. It’s not a matter of wanting UFOs (if you are implying extraterrestrial craft) to be real but rather are they real and tangible and can it be proven scientifically whatever they maybe!
BTW guys and gals don’t be too hard on me; I am looking for advice on building an observatory for astronomical purposes later this year from the good knowledgeable folks here! If I photograph a SAC I will be the first to let you know!

Keep watching the skies
Mike