UFO in focusing avi of moon

I've put a longer reply in the other thread.

Threads merged

Al, finally got the video to work, thanks for the info on the camera.
Eamonn,
Very interesting indeed, I looked at the first video many times over; I think it is still very difficult to obtain a distance and apparent size estimation with the available data (if radar data was available that would be another story); however the object has a distinct well defined circular shape (it is not too blurry), velocity changes are also apparent throughout the objects trajectory.
Initially I thought this event could be classed as “Transient Lunar phenomena” or TLP for short, (many thanks to Sir Patrick Moore for coining the term). When you read the definition of TLP it doesn’t seem to fit the evidence in this case…
“A transient lunar phenomenon (TLP) refers to short-lived lights, colors, or changes in appearance of the lunar surface. Claims of short-lived phenomena go back at least 1000 years, with some having been observed independently by multiple witnesses or reputable scientists. Nevertheless, the majority of transient lunar phenomena reports are irreproducible and do not possess adequate control experiments that could be used to distinguish among alternative hypotheses. Few reports concerning these phenomena are ever published in peer reviewed scientific journals, and rightfully or wrongfully, the lunar scientific community rarely discusses these observations. Most lunar scientists will acknowledge that transient events such as out-gassing and impact cratering do occur over geologic time: the controversy lies in the frequency of such Events”.

NASA prepared a report entitled “NASA Technical report R-277” which is very interesting in itself relating to TLPs. Although the report was published in 1968 it still remains an important body of evidence for such phenomena. We have moved on in technology since then and we now have very capable amateur astronomers utilizing quite sophisticated optical equipment and computing power and as can be seen by the results in such videos which seems to raise more questions than answers.
I think it is not a TLP event as I stated, so what else could it be. The next step I took was to dig a little deeper as it were and to find out about similar phenomena and what I found surprised me. I wonder are we now in the area of what is termed “Fastwalkers”, or is there a more mundane explanation, Hmmm!

ufovideo.blogspot.com/2007/02/fastwalker...lien-disclosure.html (Excellent 1-hour 40 minutes film entitled “Fastwalkers - UFO and Alien Disclosure 2006 free to view).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_lunar_phenomenon
science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/23jan_ltps.htm?list163493


Clear skies
Mike

Hi folks,

Some thoughts...

Lets assume its a silhouette.

There is no detectable prenumbra in the image, therefore the object must be close to the surface. Using the diameters of craters from wikipedia I've estimated the diameter of the 'shadow'[code:1]
Crater Crater-Diameter(km) Shadow-Diameter(km)
Grove 28 12.4
Baily-A 16 10.6
Daniell 30 13.3
Eudoxus 37 6.7 (I not sure of the crater boundary so disregarding this result)[/code:1]
On average that gives a diameter of 12.1km for the 'silhouette'. I think we would have noticed a 12km asteroid in trans lunar orbit...
Since there is not a corresponding bright object in the frame it must be at an altitude from the lunar surface. However this would create a prenumbra which is not apparent in the image.
Therefore I think the silhouette idea is unlikely.

Lets assume its a Bug/dirt in the optics.

The ccd used has some dark spots. These are constant in the frame and the dark object moves across so it cannot be a constant dark spot on the CCD. However since the dot is a defined dark area it must be near the CCD surface as otherwise it would be blurred (you don't notice your secondary mirror in images but you do notice a spec on the ccd.).
Dave Lillis has already mentioned that the object scintillate as the lunar surface does. Dave points out that we would not observe this behaviour if it was a bug walking in the optic surface.
The bug/dirt idea also seems unlikely.

Lets assume its a flying object between the scope and the moon.

Since we have discounted the idea that it is a silhouette then we must be looking at the 'real' object. The object is dark so we can conclude that the object must be near the Earth in order to be in the Earths shadow.

Using the size on the lunar surface determined earlier we can estimate an angular size of ~0.1 arc minutes. Perhaps the imaging folks here can give a better estimate.

So further calculations that are needed (but not at nearly 2am!):
*What altitude was the sun visible at from this location at this time (ie how high can the object be and still be in the Earths shadow)? Thats our maximum altitude.
*What size object would we have at this altitude? What size at ~10km?
*Can it be a weather balloon? Balloons are typically < ~2m in diameter on the ground. With lower pressure they can expand up to 100x. They can reach ~40km in altitude.
*The ISS is ~330km above the surface. People here have shown that that's resolvable though scopes on Earth. Does the 'round' appearance of this object indicate that it is in fact round or can we just not resolve it in detail? Another one for the imaging folks.

Hard to say much without doing those calculations but Bart's weather balloon idea seems to fit the evidence so far.

Mike: Just saw your post after writing this. It won't be possible to determine the distance and size, but with an angular diameter it will be possible to give a size at different altitudes. That can be compared to known objects (ISS, 747, weather balloon...) to see if any known objects fit the data.

It is a spider or ladybird or woodlouse etc crawling on the optics.

It moves around exactly as a spider etc. would.

No doubt about it.

Peter.

If it was, it would not "twinkle" like the background moon does.

BTW, there is no way that this is a TLP.

It is a spider or ladybird or woodlouse etc crawling on the optics.

It moves around exactly as a spider etc. would.

No doubt about it.

It cannot really be an insect as I think that the video is made up from several individual videos stitched together into mosaic. The telescope would have been moved between each captured video to follow it and the therefore the bug would have to have jumped back to the left side of the CCD with the fright from the noise of the slewing motors. Possible but I think unlikely.

I am in the balloon camp or at least something local. Could even be a UAV like the Bombardier CL-327 Guardian with the heat from the exhaust causing the twinkle. If you are really suspicious..