Astronomy Irelands so-called 'fundraiser'

The food was limited, there were no hot drinks and the event went ahead even though the weather forecast for the area was for cloudy skies. And that's what we got - dark-sky views of low cloud.

Dave,

Why do I keep getting a feeling of deja vous? I thought we covered this in a previous topic last year.

Was food limited? People can eat as much as they like. I thought there was food and soft drinks left over at the end the end of the night but I could very well be wrong on that point. I'm just not sure. I remember one Star-B-Q where I think an American couple only came for the food. They queued up half a dozen times for burgers and hot dogs! I dealt with hot drinks in another reply. Regarding the weather, to my recollection, the forecast was for clear spells with some cloud, not cloudy skies. DM has to make a decision before 2pm to allow people time to organise and travel to the event, and he does so in consultation with the Met office. Also, food has to be bought, equipment and van organised etc. Occasionally, it goes wrong but in general, the majority of Star-B-Qs have run under clear skies. If I had a euro for every time I travelled up to the Wicklow Mountains under totally clear skies or on the promise of clear skies and it turned cloudy, I'd have a tidy sum in my back pocket.

Gordon

For the sake of ballance I would like to post a number of emails sent by David Moore today. While what follows was a personal reply David Moore made to AI member Dave McDonald and then Derek Given, he (David Moore) has given permission to post it publicly.

Yes, I thought I would try and kill 2 birds with one stone as your email came in the same day (I don't have time to reply to every email Im sorry to say). Lot more info than u needed I know but better than no reply at all. I wont be able to get to Tullamore this w/end as magazine (May issue) is going to printer this weekend! I have great respect for what the TAS do in the midlands. One day we will have to find time to forge stronger links with them. I know some of their members are members of AI also and this is to be welcomed.

While I have a few minutes: The charity in question for the Star-B-Q is AI. Under Irish law (what little there is of it, and we have professionals in AI that have advised us) AI is a charity. New legislation has been talked about for years but we are involved with groups who at last seem to be bringing it closer to realisation. Anyway, AI is a non-profit group and government depts have given us 6-digit sums over the years in total so if they are happy that should speak volumes. Regardless of the tiny number of naysayers we shall keep promoting interest in astronomy in Ireland. I don't know if you are a member of AI but you are very welcome to join. We do NOT exclude anyone, unlike the other smaller groups.

I was not reading the boards on IFAS. I simply don't have time. I don't get to read half the 'pure astronomy' stuff that comes in to AI be it email or paper!

Take the "astronomy/astrology" article. I spoke with the original author of whom I am a big fan. There was NO monetary gain. We thought we were 'educating' the public about the waste of time that astrology is. The only people 'making money' are the astrologers! And I agree, that is "despicable"!

As for AI events, we must have had somewhere between 10 to 1 and 100 to 1 complements versus complaints. There is the balance! The (very few) complaints are taken on board and we find them genuinely useful. We have a PRINTED weather forecast for clear skies for our last Star-B-Q for instance, but a forecast is not a guarantee and things went against us. Is AI to be blamed now for the vagaries Irish weather! I don't know what happened to our P.A. system on the night, the same unit worked fine on a previous event in the same hall. Hot drinks are an excellent suggestion - would you believe NO ONE suggested it before!

It seems to me there are some people who simply have decided AI is a bad thing. Back when I took over as President of the Irish Astronomical Society there were 92 members of the society NATIONALLY! Why now are there nearly 3,000 paid up members of AI? If we didn't keep browbeating the media about the subject everyone would suffer. Like it or not, clubs around Ireland are benefiting from the AI effect over the past 15 years. AI is simply not going to go away, it is going to get larger, much larger.

We may have made a few mistakes, and we'll probably make some more, but we try not to make any, and to learn from those we do make. I'm sure every other decent club in Ireland does the same.

Ireland now has a full colour monthly astronomy magazine, public viewing events happening regularly across Ireland, thousands of new beginners taking up astronomy. When I was growing up there was practically nothing. I joined British groups because there was no Irish scene. The introduction of IFAS is to be welcomed, it's just a pity that the constitution was written/influenced by 'the old guard' to perpetuate petty politics. Imagine how active/vibrant IFAS could be with AI actively involved instead of IFAS being used for an us/them war, which, by the way, AI will not be dragged in to. IFAS is great. AI is great.

The sad fact is that people reading the IFAS 'politics' stuff contact AI to tell us they will have nothing to do with them. That's sad because the majority of IFAS people are decent amateur astronomers, and probably a lot of them are members of AI!

I would suggest that you experience AI yourself rather than believe everything you read whether it comes from me, an AI member, or anyone else.

Keep asking yourself, why do 10 times more people join AI than any other group?
Why are there so many professional people involved in AI?
Why are there so many more volunteers helping to run AI than any other group?
Why is so such much taxpayers money being given to AI?
Why don't the media 'expose' AI if these ridiculous allegations are true?
etc
etc

We're just trying to promote interest in astronomy - it's great fun!

And do take up my offer of coming for a drink after one of our monthly lectures, we could have a much longer chat. We might even talk about some astronomical matters rather than all this petty politics. And I'm always interested in hearing ways how AI could be made better, it's far from perfect, but we try.

Regards and clear skies,
David Moore.

Hi David,

I've heard there are a few people interested in this so I'll take a few minutes to explain though it is a busy time for me right
now.
It's no great secret.

It's used for a myriad of things. Here's a list off the top of my head:

- printing and production costs on the magazine.

- postage on the magazine (and miscellaneous postage on lots of things like renewal letters, mailshots we do for co-ordinators
around Ireland, etc)

- stationery

- phone - we have a huge P.R. campaign running every year

- salary for our part-time administrator

- room and venue event hire for events around Ireland - the Dublin ones pay for themselves and usually generate an excess even when
speakers like Bart Busschots are paid but the countrywide events usually need to be subsidised which is what we are very happy do
what with 70% of our 3,000 paid up members (9,000 different individuals have joined AI since 1990 in case u r wondering where that
9k figure came from) being OUTSIDE Dublin. By the way, that makes us 10 times bigger than any other society in Ireland many of whose
members are AI members also, but we plan for AI to get much bigger in coming years. but I digress.

- major insurance policy we have to maintain

- miscellaneous (though not insignificant) printing costs (we just had 10,000 Year Programmes printed for instance), letter head
etc

- expenses of volunteers - though most of the dozens (it could be a 100 if u count people who do at least one thing a year for the
society) of volunteers do not claim expenses. They see what AI has done for astronomy in Ireland and just want to contribute. I
personally do not bother claiming personal expenses. Indeed, it has been estimated that proceeds from the Shop contribute a very
significant 5 figure sum annually to AI and that's before you factor in any labour, at whatever hourly rate u think I'm worth

- and probably a few other things I have forgotten, but nothing untoward, just more bills like those above. The Chairman, and other
high ranking members of the society do NOT receive any payments. The Shop is ENTIRELY separate and pays its taxes and has tax
clearance certs and accounts filed up to date and pass passed a recent (random) revenue inspection I am proud to say. I split my
time overseeing the Shop(never have enough time that's why lots of prices are out of date, but we will match or beat prices if u
ask, we're hiring people this year to help as the Shop expands), being Editor of the magazine(a full time job in its own right!),
and as Chairman of the society(general dogsbody effectively! but I try to see we do as much nationwide, I give talks around Ireland,
do about 500 local radio interviews a year as well as the national coverage we often get, and try to plan the society's future
events and direction with others, etc etc it's never-ending!). oops, digressing again


u can do the math, but u'll see that AI's 3,000 members pay about 100k in memberships (35/40euro) so the society is hardly big
business.

Then don't forget that various government depts and private sponsors see what we are doing and give us some funding

Plus we raise a few k running events like Star-B-Qs, Astro-Expo in November, Leinster area lectures, Phoenix Park Watches.

These all subsidise the membership which, it has been estimated, if the volunteer labour were paid for, would cost about 100euro per
member.

So as long as you pay your sub every year we are taking money from these events, grants, and effectively Shop sales to contribute to
your membership.

If we do make a surplus we are thinking of hiring more people as there is too much for volunteers and part-timers to do.


It's a complicated issue but I hope this gives you a gist of what is going on....

apologies for the typing. I thought you'd appreciate an answer immediately and I just wouldn't have had the time to tidy it up.

ALL of the volunteers in AI really are trying to make a difference to astronomy in Ireland. Don't listen to the (very) few naysayers
who for some reason spend their time using phrases like "confidence tricks" or suggest underhanded deeds are afoot. Nothing like
this at all goes on and a few of our hard working volunteers have been very upset by this and have suggested legal action be taken
but what good would that do? We don't want to fan the flames so we just ignore the personal attacks. For every naysayer there is
there are ten times more thank you notes and letters.

Every time an AI member points out what these same few naysayers has been saying I just wonder why these people can't just leave AI
to get on with its work and use their own time to do something constructive.

The Irish Federation of Astronomy Societies was a great idea. It was a great pity that its constitution was drafted to specifically
exclude Astronomy Ireland. There are historical reasons for this which I bet no one has ever told you - politely I would describe as
differences of opinions but I don't c why they need to perpetuate it by dragging new people in to widen a rift that hardly needs to
be there in the first place.

Those clauses in the IFAS constitution have driven a needless rift between two organisations on this island with similar goals. I
salute the people in the societies who were let in to IFAS and who work to promote astronomy (we have a policy of offering them
equipment from the Shop as highly reduced rates - cheaper than UK for example - as we need to support them and show appreciation for
their work even if not directly working for AI). One day I hope they will let Astronomy Ireland join, and indeed any other group.
Like it or not, we are an astronomy society and we are Irish. It does the federation no good to exclude any group - haven't we seen
this sort of thing happening on this island all to often in the past?

The fact is Astronomy Ireland is 'above board' enough to receive government grants! The attention of the nation's media! And more
members than any other group in the world per head of population! The totally unfounded and probably actionable (based on advice
from a senior barrister) postings on IFAS boards' does nothing to further the goal of promoting interest in astronomy in Ireland -
something on which both AI and IFAS can at least agree is a noble pursuit.

Sorry, I seem to have ended up giving you a 'life story'! But if you want to know more why not come to a meeting and join us for a
drink afterwards. You can ask as many questions as you like and I'll be glad to answer them!

Regards and clear skies,
David Moore

If you share this response with anyone please do so in its entirety.

We have now heardd what all sides have to say so I am now locking this thread before things get horribly out of hand.

Bart B.,
IFAS Webmaster.