Affordable Astronomy

"The gimp's asleep"

For example, AI/A&S were offering a reduced price/special offer on the celestron eyepiece/filter kit available in an aluminium case - their price was significantly (mulitples) higher than what other non-irish shops were offering the item for. Now, since this is a specialised hobby, there will be those (especially newbies) who would see the "special" price and without doing the research go ahead and place their order. They are clearily also placing a large amount of trust in the vendor not to rip them off. We have seen the result of this on these boards and more than a little anger has spilled over.

All in the past Can we put that one to bed now.

But for those who were wronged (including me) I suspect that there is a significant amount of "wariness" present in dealing with AI/A&S - hopefully the folks there will continue this sterling (no pun) work and regain the trust of those people who dealt with AI/A&S in the past to the point they they become returning customers.

Dave I'm not here to apologize for what happened in the past.There is notting I can do about that. I'm in the Shop 1 year now. All I worry about is the last 12 months. And how the shop has come on since then. The price list is there for all to see in black or white.

I have seen very significant and positive changes in AI/A&S recently via these boards and I applaud it, and those responsible, wholeheartedly - I also hope that it work out and those wrongs of the past are righted. I really do genuinely wish this for the AI/A&S folks - many of who I count as friends and certainly fellow astronomers who love this hobby with a passion, just like me.

Thank you. I have met a lot of people on Ifas through the years some of them I had in my home.Out at the telescope. I've meet people at events all over this island and had a great laugh with them.
alot of the have become very good friends.

I felt that the only thing missing from the sale was the salesperson asking me to wear a saddle whilst they rode me around the shop a few times before taking my Maestro card...

Wow to much info there Dave. Sometimes I wonder what goes in that head of yours keep your fantasy's to yourself. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Your points on "caveat emptor" are interesting but we are in a capitalist free economy so do your research when buying expensive equipment or you will get burned.

Carl - I hope you didn't think I was AI/A&S bashing - I'm genuinely not. I think that recent developments show a genuine committment to change for the better and for the good of amatuer astronomers.

I guess my was point was really an observation that there *are* people out there who will require a good bit of persuading that these changes are real and will continue - i.e. not just a temporary feature. In terms of what this means for the shop, just be prepared to accept that fact and cut people a bit of slack if they're really skeptical. And also, don't get disheartened if you feel people are bashing *you* - its nothing personal... Keep at it, stay true, remain on course and you'll reap the rewards.

Wouldn't it be great if this could all be "forgotten" and put in the past - however the reality is that it *did* happen and people don't forget. You can say its "all in the past" 'til the cows come home - but that won't change people's feelings. What *will* change their feelings are clear demonstrations that AI/A&S *is* changing and that the change continues. If you do that, most, if not all, will come on board.

Again, its nothing personal - you're doing sterling work - keep at it, stick to your guns and stay on course. I for one would support anyone that does that.

Don't let the naysayers get you down, but don't dismiss them either - work at winning them over. Then you'll succeed. I guarantee it.

As for the saddle bit, more of a nightmare than a fantasy - unless Mylene was in that particular scenario

Dave

Your points on "caveat emptor" are interesting but we are in a capitalist free economy so do your research when buying expensive equipment or you will get burned.

Is that me or John?

If its me, then....

Caveat Emptor is great when you have, let's say, twenty shops selling telescopes. There is great choice, they *will* be ultra competitive and everyone will get the chance to full and complete research.

But when there are two or three very geographically dispersed shops, your choice is immediately limited, competition is certainly less and the risk of getting a bum deal is increased. Add technical complexity to this and a product that isn't the price of a loaf and I think throwing Caveat Emptor out there as the reason someone got burned is being a tad harsh or even disingenuous. And its hardly sympathetic and definately not constructive.

They may have got burned due to lack of knowledge of what they were buying, a less than full disclosure by the sales person, or even simple stuff like "oh, you'll need some eyepieces as well - shall I add them onto the bill Sir?"

Think of buying a car - no problem if you're a fanatic and you know the nuances of the internal combustion engine, alloy wheels, the difference between Bridgestone and Acme tyres etc etc - notwithstanding warranties, insurance and the like... Certainly I've gotten a lemon before and I'm by no means stupid or reckless...

And doing research on astro kit - well, you know as well as I how fraught with difficulty that is - only if you have used a scope or other equipment will you truly know what questions you need ask - what the critical answers you need are.

By way of example, I heard an article on the radio the other day. A bloke bought a car from the UK - asked all the exhaustive questions he could think of from the dealer. He got an AA report on the car. He got a finance report on the car. He got a report saying it had never been written off etc. All was rosey. Then he discovered, after flying over to the UK to pick up his new possession, with a booked ferry sailing just a few hours away, that the previous owner was a smoker... He failed to ask the question and the vendor failed to tell him. Caveat Emptor in that case is pretty harsh I think... Who here would have had *that* question on their list?

Anyhow, the principle of caveat emptor is solid - I think its definately the first thing people should remember when purchasing stuff, any stuff. But to say that if you don't do it, then you *will* get burned is a pretty sad state of affairs. We should stamp out rip-off merhcants, blow the whistle, name and shame and ultimately if people are ripping others off, persuade the injure party to sue the blackguards.

€0.02

Dave

Carl - I hope you didn't think I was AI/A&S bashing -

Not at all Dave.