A.I. observing session tuesday night

How many years ago was that Mullingar incident!? 10? 15? That "rep" is not with the society any more.

Astronomy Ireland is in a difficult position regarding advertising other clubs in IFAS because IFAS' constitution bans AI from membership! How unfriendly is that? AI does not waste time getting involved in club politics and cannot be seen to promote an organisation that bans it I'm sure you will understand!

Once the ban is lifted and AI is a contributing member of IFAS the resources of AI, which is many times larger than IFAS, could be opened up. This constitution thing is driving a wedge between 2 great Irish astronomy organisations.

Here we go... :roll:
To set the record straight:

IFAS does not "ban" AI from becoming a member. AI only has to abide by the IFAS constitution. One of the main stumbling blocks would be the issue of a democratically elected council or committee. I don't believe this is too much to ask for. The vast majority of astronomy organisations across the world operate on this basis. One must ask why AI doesn't operate on this basis?? If you look across the island of Ireland, the vast majority of organisations operate on a democratic basis - everything from residents associations to gun clubs to GAA clubs. I do not see why IFAS clubs should be any different. Do you?

In terms of posts re AI events on this site, this issue was raised recently with the IFAS committee. Notifications such as this one are not a problem here. We only ask that information be correct and that excessive numbers of notices not be placed i.e. be honest and don't spam. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

Valid questions were raised re the "free" bit. It is not long ago that money was often requested at such events and people who were familiar with this policy asked a fair question. To be fair to Carl, this question was answered. It is very welcome to see that the policy of charging for a look through a telescope is gone. If it were a special event for a needy charity such as, say, for the blind or something then I could understand that one would ask for a donation, provided it was advertised as such. However, for a club or company or person to charge for their own benefit would be inappropriate, IMHO.

Hopefully, the above helps clarify the position. If you have any queries or commets, please feel free to reply or contact me privately.

Have fun,

Hi guys,

Ok, let's take all the points one-by-one. I don't really want to start a flame war but it might be interesting to note my personal experiences.

The Mullingar incident was the night of the Mars opposition in 2003.

I don't honestly think the lack of recognition is due to IFAS excluding A.I. If SDAS withdrew from IFAS would we suddenly get A.I. promoting us? I think not. In fact, DCU astronomy club is a member of IFAS yet are invited along to the Astro-Expo every year. Astro-2 are IFAS members and similarly recognised. When I asked could SDAS be represented I was flatly turned down so unfortunately the previously mentioned reasons for A.I. not talking to us are conflicting with their position.

SDAS btw are a FREE club with a number of A.I. members. I don't have any problem with A.I. ... NONE AT ALL ... and think it's brilliant that the hobby has such a high profile. My problem is, why does A.I. come up with excuses whenever I ask them to advertise something on OUR behalf, not IFASs. We had Guy Consolmagno, co-author of "Turn Left at Orion", over last year and repeated requests to mention his talk to the wider A.I. membership were ignored.

Now, that's pettiness if somebody in A.I. decided because they had a problem with another club they said they couldn't care less that they were making a decision not to tell the members. Tell me that's democratic?????

All it needs is for A.I. to turn around and say, yes, no problem, we'll list your event. Are they going to make the first move?

Ok well it does seems there is an appetite for this discussion so lets have it.

My main problem is its Ok for people to advertise all kinds of commercial entities, e.g. remote observatories (arnie rosner), lidl, UK retailers etc, but when a genuine guy (carl) feels it's in the interest of the astronomy scene to advertise a free telescope session then that's not ok, if AEye are behind it. It's ok for IFAS clubs to advertise chargeable events, lectures, mags etc, but not AEye even for a free event.

You might say that these are IFAS clubs and this is the IFAS boards but let me remind everyone that IFAS is an organisation which specifically excludes AEye by it's constitution. Thats IFAS's perogative, however you then ask AEye to support IFAS clubs in its magazine. You can't have it everyway guys.

I have done my level best personally to make AEye see that it's in everyone's interest to work with IFAS, however everytime I start to get somewhere all of this stuff comes out.

i hope this is not going to start another flame war about AI. i think it is too easy for people on a forum to get a bit too hot headed about things like this, so take a deep breath everyone please . while i am not particularly fond of AI i don't think we should exclude people mentioning their free events, if they are going to charge that is a different matter. as for IFAS excluding AI there was a good discussion on this when the first meeting for IFAS to be setup. the reason that AI was left out was simple as it was decided that clubs with a committee and a constitution (basically most clubs run on amateur basis) would be allowed join. all clubs were to be treated equally regardless of size.

the majority felt that if we were to allow AI to join that certain people there would make out that IFAS was something to do with them and we would be swallowed up by the AOL of irish astronomy, AI. since that day nothing has really happened to convince me otherwise, that this would not happen after the failed coup d'etat of the IAS before AI was formed. basically certain people in that group refuse to recognise anyone else, well then so be it. it is sad that people can't get on but that is the way things are. it is also sad because like yourself dave and the others of AI that come here we all seem to get along except when this topic comes up . people are i think annoyed by the fact that there is a shop , magazine and a club and it is not clear where one ends and another begins and no one seems to know where the money goes to or what it goes on. please think ( or at least calm down) before replying i am not trying to start a fight with the AI members here just trying to point out why some people feel the way the do about AI. now lets all get back to astronomy.

all i want to do is promote astronomy and let people see the wonders of the sky, what is wrong with that?

for free :!:

all i want to do is promote astronomy and let people see the wonders of the sky, what is wrong with that?

for free :!:

And so say all of us Carl! We're right behind you!

I really hope that at some point in the future we can all get over this and move on for the benefit of amateur astronomy.

Perhaps you and Dave could help reach that goal?

Dave