A.I. observing session tuesday night

OK, now to my real response to the proposals here.

Firstly, we are having some real dialogue for the first time in a long time. Good!

Secondly, as much as I personally would like to see an end to the anamosity between AI and some IFAS members it's gonna take a long time and a lot of baby-steps, it's not going to happen over-night. The simple fact is that AI cannot join IFAS because IFAS will split and Amateur astronomy in Ireland will be right back where it was 16 years ago, lots of agro, lots of politics and not enough astronomy!

So, what positive steps can be taken at this time? IMO a very very simple first step would be for both sides to drop the agression and openly advertise each other's events.

I personally prefer the IFAS model to the AI model but that does not mean that one is right and the other is wrong. I see no reason that both organisations can not co-exist peacefully, both working together towards our common goal, promoting amateur astronomy in Ireland. We CAN co-esist! We are not in competition with each other, we both offer people a choice. Live and let live. It is physically impossible to set up a single organisation that everyone agrees with on everything. So we should stop trying to and just get on with co-existing and organising Astronomy events!

Like so many here I'm sick of the politics. I'm dissapointed each time a high ranking IFAS representative perpetuates it and am saddened each time AI ignore a good event that is not theirs. Lets just move on and work together in the interest of Astronomy in Ireland. Both our member bases deserve to be told about all Astronomy events in the country, THAT is truely in the interest of promoting Astronomy in Ireland!

Thanks for taking the time to hear my opinions,

Bart.

Bart,
Thanks for the clear headed post, I must say I agree with what you say about co-operation

So, what positive steps can be taken at this time? IMO a very very simple first step would be for both sides to drop the agression and openly advertise each other's events.Bart.

AND, this is also a good point !

I see no reason that both organisations can not co-exist peacefully, Bart.

this is an attainable goal we could work for, what do you think ??

So the result of my discussion with Mr. Moore was this, he specifically authorised me to make this offer to the IFAS committee.

'Astronomy Ireland will use it's resources to assist local clubs in promoting their societies and events. In return, IFAS must withdraw the article of it's constitution which excludes Astronomy Ireland from membership of IFAS.'

Let me clarify in a little more detail, 'using it's resources to assist local clubs in promoting their societies and events' means that AEye will list local club events etc in it's magazine, will also do the same in it's e-mail distribution lists. I would envisage that at some point AEye and local clubs could possibly even run the odd joint event together.

The way I see it is that going down this route means that astronomy stops taking a back seat to politics.

Thats actually quite funny

The way I see it is that going down this route means that astronomy stops taking a back seat to politics. Starting with asking one organisation to change its perfectly reasonable constitution?! Equally IFAS could try demanding that AI have elections, and we get back to the usual debate. Both organisations operate differently. Deal with it folks.

We have gone from A.I. offering (through Dave Grennan) that they would be open to promoting events for clubs (as the magazine offers/d), to now DM insisting that the independent clubs alter the constitution of an umberella organisation before this can happen!

The relationship between independednt clubs has absolutely nothing to do with the relationship between those clubs and IFAS. E.g. John Flannery isn't asking him to promote IFAS hes asking him to promote a free astronomy talk in Dublin for SDAS!

What does A.I. care about a particular clubs affiliations? This looks to me like DM playing politics. I suspect he knows that IFAS won't change its principles on only allowing democratically elected clubs hence the offer.

"We'll promote club events in the mag & email if you let us stick up reasonable announcements about our events on the boards" would be the non bolitics approach. And that would get my backing (not that I have a vote in any of this!)

BTW just to mention in passing that ILPAC is not an IFAS member. We are the oficial Irish Section of the International Dark Sky Association.

Cheers,
~Al

BTW just to mention in passing that ILPAC is not an IFAS member. We are the oficial Irish Section of the International Dark Sky Association.

And Moore still refuses to give you the time of day. A true testament to Moore's character of 'supporting' other clubs/organisations.

BTW just to mention in passing that ILPAC is not an IFAS member. We are the oficial Irish Section of the International Dark Sky Association.

And Moore still refuses to give you the time of day. A true testament to Moore's character of 'supporting' other clubs/organisations.

After some posts from Dave Grennan a while back I've decided to again try to foster a relationship between AI & ILPAC. ILPAC currently has a web link to AI and we've asked that they link back to us, and have offered to write articles and give talks for them etc. Unfortunately I didn't get a reply. I'm currently writing an unsolicited article for A&S, hopefully that will get a positive response.

Cheers,
~Al

hi bart,
all i am trying to do is get every one out looking through a telescope i cannot see a problem with that i'm dissapointed that each time i put an event on the boards all hell breaks lose, as i said before all i'm interested in is promoting astronomy witch i love to do, and love to share my Interst and knowlege of astronomy with everyone. i don't no what happend in the 90s, all i can see it has notting to do with "astronomy" :!: i think ifas is doing great work and are a great bunch of lads we all have a common goal astronomy. trust me i will becoming along to ifas events to and hopefully help you guys also, thats how intrested i am in promoting astronomy.