If I may say so Carl, you seem learned of some past events to assume a past rep is not with a club aymore.
Carl was told that by DM after the point was made by John.
For the Constitution bit, you should read up on it instead of ranting false facts you heard from some one else. I am not making an attack upon you, but just that there seems to be a feeling of you wishing to promote AEye more than is fair for them.
Firstly I think it's unfair to equate anything Carl posted as a 'Rant'
Actually Seanie, I don't think those are false facts at all. Stephen put it well earlier in this thread. When IFAS was formed there was a specifically worded constitution drawn up with the intention of excluding AEye. The reason, as Stephen said, was to ensure AEye did not swallow up IFAS. The fact is IFAS doesn't want AEye involved, but one of the major threads of complaint here is that AEye won't support IFAS clubs, because it is excluded from membership.
If there is some bitterness, for any reason, you feel towards how badly treated AEye are in the eyes of some IFAS users, then why not get in touch with them via PM to find out why? We all have our stories, FROM EXPERIENCE, that we may be willing to share in more detail.
I have no doubt there could be some hair raising tales, but we need to put that stuff in the past for the sake of astronomy in this country.
IFAS does not, nor has ever considered, banning AEye. Of course, it might appear like that at first reading of the IFAS Constitution. But, when it was drawn up, a focus of who to include under the umbrella scheme of an amalgamation of astronomy clubs and societies, the current wording was deemed the most suitable to be aimed towards them, and exclude business-minded organisations, which would include astronomy club websites that perhaps charge website admission etc etc.
This is where I feel an injustice is being done to AEye. A&S is a business, a business which sells telescopes and produces a magazine for Astronomy Ireland. This business is owned and run by Mr David Moore. Thats his business and I say good luck to him with it.
Astronomy Ireland is a club run primarily by volunteer effort, recently the sheer volume of work has meant that staff have had to be employed to do a lot of the work because the society is getting too big for its own good. The salaries for these staff have to be paid from somewhere. AEye has to raise funds just like any organisation, Mr.Moore made a decision that the best way to do this was by a business model rather than a committee model. Quite frankly I agree with him, for an organisation that size a committee does not work.
All clubs need funds to operate. The only way to get this is through membership fees, donations, and charging for events. AEye works on a much bigger scale than most clubs and as such needs more funds. The confusion arises because with this business model the line between AI and A&S is harder to see. Let me be very clear about this, THEY ARE SEPARATE entities, with separate accounts. When someone makes a donation to AEye it goes to an Eye's account. Not a single penny is given to anyone as personal profit. AEye often has to pay for professional services, e.g. accountants etc, but that has to be done, there is no way a volunteer could be expected to take on that amount of work.
By (loose) definition, a club or society is that which is run by fellow enthusiasts and like-minded hobbyists, where suggestions and criticisms are openly engaged and acted upon,
This is where I think the biggest injustice sits. It belittles the wonderful effort which so many members of AEye give freely of their own free time to help run AEye. Those guys standing in the Phoenix Park tomorrow night are not being paid. Even the society won't be getting any funds since it's free. These people are exactly the like minded hobbyists you describe above.
I spent over an hour on the phone with Mr.Moore discussing the whole IFAS/AEye issue. Beleive me he didn't get an easy time, I probably gave him a harder time than I ever gave any of you guys!! He listened to my arguments in a very rational manner and I think has taken some of them on board.
AEye, by definition, is a company - full stop. There is no chairperson, just a profiteering director who will never relinquish his position as long as there is power to go with it. His company's policy does not meet the (loose) criteria for a club, therefore cannot be considered part of the IFAS umbrella, unforunately.
That is completely and utterly untrue for all the reasons I mentioned above. AEye is a society. full stop. A&S is the company. You see the catch 22 here Seanie. IFAS clubs complain that AEye wont support/publicise them. AEye is refusing to do so because they are excluded from IFAS, so unless something changes then we go nowhere.
So the result of my discussion with Mr. Moore was this, he specifically authorised me to make this offer to the IFAS committee.
'Astronomy Ireland will use it's resources to assist local clubs in promoting their societies and events. In return, IFAS must withdraw the article of it's constitution which excludes Astronomy Ireland from membership of IFAS.'
Let me clarify in a little more detail, 'using it's resources to assist local clubs in promoting their societies and events' means that AEye will list local club events etc in it's magazine, will also do the same in it's e-mail distribution lists. I would envisage that at some point AEye and local clubs could possibly even run the odd joint event together.
The way I see it is that going down this route means that astronomy stops taking a back seat to politics. Surely when an event is run the important thing is that were all trying to bring astronomy to the forefront. So when an event is run the important thing is were putting bodies in front of scopes, the club that's running the event should be secondary to that fact. If the society becomes more imprtant than the hobby then were missing the point. This something I specifically mentioned to Mr.Moore too.
I am not blind to the fact that this would be a major move for IFAS but without trying to sound too cheesy, if we want to move forward there needs to be give and take. Please discuss this with the committee and let us know what the decision is. Lets get on with the astronomy.
A slighty long-winded, yet simple, response Carl!
Ha!!! Long winded?? Compared to me your the very essence of brevity! BTW Seanie, please don't take any of my reponses to your quotes personally. I have a huge personal respect for you and all the first rate work done by you and TAS (as well as a whole heap of volunteers right around this country who do tireless work for all societies)
  